View Poll Results: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

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  • Yes

    66 37.50%
  • No

    110 62.50%
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Thread: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

  1. #221
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boring Bob View Post
    Corporations and unions can independantly fund political messages, which act as an indirect donation to whomever is supported in those messages.
    I reject calling speech about politics an "indirect donation." That's silly. Expressing an opinion about a candidate is not a donation in any way shape or form.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    And yet I'm the one who actually knows what I'm talking about, whereas you don't.
    Well that is a good way to end a debate of any meaning. I think that your point is made.

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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    Well that is a good way to end a debate of any meaning. I think that your point is made.
    As I made clear in the rest of the post, it was an invitation to discuss more, not to end debate. The debate started with my opponent asserting that it was already over because he knows more about lobbying than an actual lobbyist.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Ridiculous, but then "very conservative" says it all.
    Why rediculus? Why the bigotry?
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Awesome!



    Um, false. Speech does the same thing. Not that it matters. Lobbying is a right, so spending money on it is a right.

    And we were talking about speech anyway, not lobbying. Whatever. No difference.

    So you agree that a restriction on spending on a right would be an unconstitutional restriction on that right. Which is obvious. Thanks.
    I understand what you mean and what the law says... I don't agree that either are correct though.
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  6. #226
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    As I made clear in the rest of the post, it was an invitation to discuss more, not to end debate. The debate started with my opponent asserting that it was already over because he knows more about lobbying than an actual lobbyist.
    Non the less claiming absolute knowledge of anything, comes off as arrogant and basically says to everyone "I know it all, end of discussion!"

    Even old timer Lobbyists dont know it all. New situations different policies and public acceptance of the trade transforms the situation on a annul or even less bases.

    You seem to be claiming that big money has absolutely no influence on the practice of lobbying. If that were true how can certain types of lobbying be illegal?

    U.S. charges two for illegal lobbying for Pakistan | Reuters Pakistan has spent at least $4 million since the mid-1990s lobbying the U.S. Congress and the White House through Fai and the Kashmiri American Council, also known as the Kashmir Center, where Fai served as executive director, according to an FBI affidavit filed in U.S. court.
    The above seems to suggest that perhaps you do not know what you are talking about. Pakistan spent $4 million lobbying. Where did that money go?

    An FBI affidavit detailed the alleged scheme in which Fai's organization received up to $700,000 annually from Pakistan to make campaign contributions to U.S. politicians, sponsor conferences and other promotions. same link
    Top of the list turns out to be "U.S. politicians". Now why would campaign contributions be where the money was going? Could it be that Pakistan wanted to buy a say so in our Government, which by all definition is by-passing our Democracy?

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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I understand what you mean and what the law says... I don't agree that either are correct though.
    You just said you did agree. Which is it?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  8. #228
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    Non the less claiming absolute knowledge of anything, comes off as arrogant and basically says to everyone "I know it all, end of discussion!"
    When people come charging at me and insult me, I resist. I'm happy to have a respectful discussion though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    You seem to be claiming that big money has absolutely no influence on the practice of lobbying. If that were true how can certain types of lobbying be illegal?
    No, I'm saying lobbying and money aren't the same thing. If you want to criticize the influence of money, do that. Don't call it "lobbying." Plenty of people lobby without money involved - including the reform groups that want to get money out of politics.
    The above seems to suggest that perhaps you do not know what you are talking about. Pakistan spent $4 million lobbying. Where did that money go? Top of the list turns out to be "U.S. politicians". Now why would campaign contributions be where the money was going? Could it be that Pakistan wanted to buy a say so in our Government, which by all definition is by-passing our Democracy?
    These contributions were illegal. Remember? What's your point?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  9. #229
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    When people come charging at me and insult me, I resist. I'm happy to have a respectful discussion though. No, I'm saying lobbying and money aren't the same thing. If you want to criticize the influence of money, do that. Don't call it "lobbying." Plenty of people lobby without money involved - including the reform groups that want to get money out of politics. These contributions were illegal. Remember? What's your point?
    My point is that the 1st Amendment does not mention money only the right to petition. The public throughout the history of the US has called for strict regulation of Lobbying.

    What made it illegal for Pakistan to Lobby?

    FBI agents arrested Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai, 62, in Virginia on charges that he failed to register as an agent of a foreign government. Zaheer Ahmad, 63, was also charged but is believed to be in Pakistan. Both are naturalized U.S. citizens. Mr. Fai is accused of a decades-long scheme with one purpose -- to hide Pakistan's involvement behind his efforts to influence the U.S. government's position on Kashmir," said Neil MacBride, U.S. Attorney for Eastern Virginia. The Justice Department said that there was no evidence that any elected officials who received the contributions from Fai or his group knew that it came from the Pakistani government.---Same link as above
    It wasnt the actual Lobbying practice that was illegal, instead it was the fact that Pakistan was doing it without declaring that they were.

  10. #230
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    I don't want to live in a country where the press is barred from discussing politics.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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