View Poll Results: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

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Thread: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

  1. #161
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    All you need to read is page 1 to understand this debate.

    CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING...

    This entire thread was based on a dispute between CT and I on another thread about a statement he made. I suggest you read Zyphlin's post on the first page to fully understand the flaw in CT's beliefs, and why myself and others dispute the premise "The US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States".
    dispute all you want.....

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  2. #162
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    If that were the context in which I was arguing, then I would agree.

    However, grim's argument was that the cop's warnings were law and had to be followed as law. A cop's word is not law, the precedents and laws that the cop follows are law, and those must be in pursuance of the Constitution to be lawful.
    You are wrong. The police officially represent the law to the people and are fully authorized to do so. Society has agreed that right or wrong, people are obligated/required to respect and abide by the interpretation and enforcement of the law by police at point of contact (within reason of course). Disputing police interpretation and enforcement of the law at point of contact, is in of itself, against the law.

    The legality and Constitutionality of the law, or the interpretation or enforcement by police at the point of contact of the law, is strictly a judicial matter.



    Interestingly though, you are arguing a philosophical position that all unconstitutional laws are lawful until they are found to be unconstitutional by the courts. In that sense I disagree. While the courts are the final arbiter of the law, each individual citizen in this country is responsible for assessing whether laws are lawful or unlawful. I would gladly go to jail in protest of a law that is unconstitutional in order to have it tossed out by the courts. However, I would have to be incredibly certain of it.
    That doesn't change the fact that a persons individual interpretation of the law, does not change the fact that the law exists, and that police are not only authorized, but duty-bound to enforce those laws... Nor does it change the fact that citizens are still obligated to respect and abide by police enforcement of the law.

    Here's an example... Let's say you disagree with a law and refuse to comply with police. That leads to a physical confrontation with police when they attempt to enforce that law and you are arrested and charged with assault on a police officer. Even if you challenge the law in court, and the judge agrees with you and the law is repealed, you will still be tried and held accountable for assaulting a police officer. The ends do not justify the means my friend, and that's because whether a law is right or wrong... Constitutional or unconstitutional... you must abide by police and law enforcement.

    This seems to be the sticking point between conservatives and libertarians on this issue. Conservatives seem to argue that it is not a legitimate action to stand in violation of a law in order to have it overturned by the courts.
    Not true, but that isn't the issue here... Those kids weren't protesting to have the law they were violating overturned, they were protesting the actions of the university. Don't convolute things or attempt to turn this into something it's not.

  3. #163
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    You are wrong. The police officially represent the law to the people and are fully authorized to do so. Society has agreed that right or wrong, people are obligated/required to respect and abide by the interpretation and enforcement of the law by police at point of contact (within reason of course). Disputing police interpretation and enforcement of the law at point of contact, is in of itself, against the law.
    I disagree. Police can arrest me if they feel I am not abiding by the law, but they are not the law. I am under no obligation to comply with police as long as I am content to deal with the consequences of being arrested.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 11-21-11 at 01:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  4. #164
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    You are wrong. The police officially represent the law to the people and are fully authorized to do so. Society has agreed that right or wrong, people are obligated/required to respect and abide by the interpretation and enforcement of the law by police at point of contact (within reason of course). Disputing police interpretation and enforcement of the law at point of contact, is in of itself, against the law.

    The legality and Constitutionality of the law, or the interpretation or enforcement by police at the point of contact of the law, is strictly a judicial matter.





    That doesn't change the fact that a persons individual interpretation of the law, does not change the fact that the law exists, and that police are not only authorized, but duty-bound to enforce those laws... Nor does it change the fact that citizens are still obligated to respect and abide by police enforcement of the law.

    Here's an example... Let's say you disagree with a law and refuse to comply with police. That leads to a physical confrontation with police when they attempt to enforce that law and you are arrested and charged with assault on a police officer. Even if you challenge the law in court, and the judge agrees with you and the law is repealed, you will still be tried and held accountable for assaulting a police officer. The ends do not justify the means my friend, and that's because whether a law is right or wrong... Constitutional or unconstitutional... you must abide by police and law enforcement.



    Not true, but that isn't the issue here... Those kids weren't protesting to have the law they were violating overturned, they were protesting the actions of the university. Don't convolute things or attempt to turn this into something it's not.
    if the ends don't justify the means, why do you believe it was fine to use pepper spray? removing the protestors (ends) in no way justifies the means.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  5. #165
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    dispute all you want.....

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
    Nothing like ignoring context to score political points... I guess dishonesty is one of those "the ends justifies the means" things with the left that they are perfectly willing to engage in. That's not how I choose to be, but to each his own I guess.

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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Nothing like ignoring context to score political points... I guess dishonesty is one of those "the ends justifies the means" things with the left that they are perfectly willing to engage in. That's not how I choose to be, but to each his own I guess.
    Given that you misunderstood the context of my post, I don't think you have much room to talk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  7. #167
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    You are wrong. The police officially represent the law to the people and are fully authorized to do so. Society has agreed that right or wrong, people are obligated/required to respect and abide by the interpretation and enforcement of the law by police at point of contact (within reason of course). Disputing police interpretation and enforcement of the law at point of contact, is in of itself, against the law.

    The legality and Constitutionality of the law, or the interpretation or enforcement by police at the point of contact of the law, is strictly a judicial matter.
    Police are not the law, that couldn't be further from the truth. It may be wise to not disobey the police in certain situations, since they are clearly in the authority, but when a police officer disobeys the law, he or she is just as culpable as any other individual. That's why these things happen:


    Officer Sued in Death
    Officer Sued in Federal Court
    Family Wins Taser-Death Lawsuit

    You can sue a police officer when he/she breaks the law, and if a police officer can break the law, then their word cannot possibly be the law.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-21-11 at 01:53 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  8. #168
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    if the ends don't justify the means, why do you believe it was fine to use pepper spray? removing the protestors (ends) in no way justifies the means.
    That of course has nothing to do with the question at hand on this thread, but I'll tell you what... Why don't you tell me what you think the police should have done, and then I will be better able to explain my position. You see, every time I explain my position, I'm hit with "they should have...". So if you tell me how you feel they should have handled things, I will either agree with you, or explain the flaw in your thinking, without having to play debate ping pong that always seem to lead nowhere.

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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land...
    /end thread
    Let's get alittle clarification on the above, shall we?

    This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
    Towhich I will modify my answer as...
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Yes, with the following understanding:

    When the Supreme Court takes up a case, it does so in an attempt to determine the "constitutionality" of said law, not whether or not such a law was violated. However, as has already been pointed out our laws and ordiances are based on constitutional principles. Therefore, in that sense the root of all U.S. laws - federal, state or local - are derived from the guiding priciples of the Constitution. But yes, the Constitution is our nation's supreme law of the land because it lays the foundation for all other laws written by Congress, soverign states and local municipalities.
    Again, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Except I'm really not; I was only half-wrong.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 11-21-11 at 02:43 PM.

  10. #170
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    dispute all you want.....

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
    Um, Liblady...

    If you're going by this as proof, then the ansewr would be no to both Grim AND to the OP.

    According to what you quoted, the Constitution is NOT the Supreme Law of the Land.

    The Constitution AND the laws of the united states AND all the treaties of the United States are the Supreme Law of the Land.

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