View Poll Results: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

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  • Yes

    51 55.43%
  • No

    41 44.57%
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Thread: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

  1. #141
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    The Constitution governs the government, statutes and common laws govern the individuals and institutions. The constitution is not a "guideline or principle" that governments can just follow or not, it's binding
    You argument is all based off the assumption that my statement suggested that it was non-binding.

    The Constitution is the "Supreme Law of the Land" in the sense that its the foundation upon which the United States of America's Laws are made...IE, it's the law that governs the governments creation of laws that government the people. It is not the "Supreme Law of the Land" in the sense that the original poster was apparently inspired to post this thread in which it was implied that somehow an individual citizens interpritation of the constitution (Which is, frankly, worthless in a legal sense) is somehow more the "law" than a police officers actions regarding laws on the books. Stating that a Cop is acting "illegally" because the "Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land" and YOU think the thing they're doing is unconstitutional is not a legitimate fact nor is it an accurate representation of how the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. The cops words at that point in time absolutely are more in line and more empowered by the law than your own personal interpritation of the Constitution up until such point that a judge rules in your favor.

    So in a general sense, the answer is yes. In the way the OP was originally intending in the thread that spawned this and that he's now attempting to use this poll to justify his correctness on, it does not.

  2. #142
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    No real desire to read 15 pages of postings. How can anyone dispute the obvious? The Constitution is the yardstick by which all other laws are measured. Should they not measure up to the standards and requirements of the Constitution they are struck down, or modified to comply. How is that not "Supreme" law.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    No real desire to read 15 pages of postings. How can anyone dispute the obvious? The Constitution is the yardstick by which all other laws are measured. Should they not measure up to the standards and requirements of the Constitution they are struck down, or modified to comply. How is that not "Supreme" law.
    You should have read the 15 pages

  4. #144
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land

    /end thread
    You need to parse better. To wit:

    1. This Constitution,
    2. and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof;
    3. and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States,

    shall be the supreme Law of the Land
    And then explain, rather than copy-and-paste, why certain states/cities are allowed to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.

  5. #145
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    No real desire to read 15 pages of postings. How can anyone dispute the obvious? The Constitution is the yardstick by which all other laws are measured. Should they not measure up to the standards and requirements of the Constitution they are struck down, or modified to comply. How is that not "Supreme" law.
    All you need to read is page 1 to understand this debate.

    CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING...

    This entire thread was based on a dispute between CT and I on another thread about a statement he made. I suggest you read Zyphlin's post on the first page to fully understand the flaw in CT's beliefs, and why myself and others dispute the premise "The US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States".

  6. #146
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Since I am the one who inspired this thread, I think I should make things clear. You made the following statement pertaining to the pepper spraying incident that took place yesterday:



    That is false. The police do not refer to the US Constitution to determine what is and isn't legal. They refer to the statutes from a city, state, federal, etc.. Those are the laws we all are expected to follow, and police are duty bound to enforce.

    The constitution is not a set of laws, but rather a set of rules and guidelines used to fashion our laws. Our laws must be in compliance with the constitution, otherwise they are not laws. Many laws throughout our history have been made and enforced that violate the constitution, but because they were not challenged for their constitutionality at the time of passing, they were considered legal and were enforced. When people challenge the constitutionality of a law, it is then the job of our judicial system to determine it's compliance with the constitution.

    For example... You can not say what you want, anywhere you want, at any time you want, and claim the legal right to do so under the constitution's right to free speech. If that were the case, you could break into my home, enter my bedroom at 2am and start reading the bible to me because I didn't attend church, and I would have no legal recourse.
    Does the highlighted and underlined sentence in your post pretty much acknowledge that The Constitution is the supreme law of the land? If all laws must comply with the Constitution isn't that saying it trumps all others? Even if you say only when challenged.
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  7. #147
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    I believe Grim has acknowledged that in a generalized sense of its supremacy due to it essentially serving as the laws governing government in making laws that govern the people. Grim's argument that it isn't is in regards to the context the OP was using it in the thread that spurred this one, in which he was arguing that a Cop taking action with regards to the law isn't "The law", but rather the Constitution is the law because its the "Supreme Law of the Land". Essentially trying to say that since the Constitution is the "Supreme Law", and HE felt something was in violation of the constitution, then the Cop's actions regarding the law didn't matter becuase they were overruled by nature of the supremacy of the Constitution.

    IE, somehow going "But I say the constitution says I can do it and its the supreme law so the cop is wrong!" is a factually correct statement, rather than an argument that has 0 legal standing and legitimacy until such point that a judge renders an opinion favoring it.

  8. #148
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    /end thread
    Interesting. So the Constitution itself doesn't even agree that its singularly the "Supreme Law of the Land". Rather that the "Supreme Law of the Land" is the Constitution + Laws + Treaties.

  9. #149
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I believe Grim has acknowledged that in a generalized sense of its supremacy due to it essentially serving as the laws governing government in making laws that govern the people. Grim's argument that it isn't is in regards to the context the OP was using it in the thread that spurred this one, in which he was arguing that a Cop taking action with regards to the law isn't "The law", but rather the Constitution is the law because its the "Supreme Law of the Land". Essentially trying to say that since the Constitution is the "Supreme Law", and HE felt something was in violation of the constitution, then the Cop's actions regarding the law didn't matter becuase they were overruled by nature of the supremacy of the Constitution.

    IE, somehow going "But I say the constitution says I can do it and its the supreme law so the cop is wrong!" is a factually correct statement, rather than an argument that has 0 legal standing and legitimacy until such point that a judge renders an opinion favoring it.
    If that were the context in which I was arguing, then I would agree.

    However, grim's argument was that the cop's warnings were law and had to be followed as law. A cop's word is not law, the precedents and laws that the cop follows are law, and those must be in pursuance of the Constitution to be lawful.

    Interestingly though, you are arguing a philosophical position that all unconstitutional laws are lawful until they are found to be unconstitutional by the courts. In that sense I disagree. While the courts are the final arbiter of the law, each individual citizen in this country is responsible for assessing whether laws are lawful or unlawful. I would gladly go to jail in protest of a law that is unconstitutional in order to have it tossed out by the courts. However, I would have to be incredibly certain of it.

    This seems to be the sticking point between conservatives and libertarians on this issue. Conservatives seem to argue that it is not a legitimate action to stand in violation of a law in order to have it overturned by the courts. Conservatives seem to think the only legitimate course of action is to have the law repealed by Congress. I may be generalizing, but that seems to be the big beef the right has with movements that utilize civil disobedience.
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    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  10. #150
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Interesting. So the Constitution itself doesn't even agree that its singularly the "Supreme Law of the Land". Rather that the "Supreme Law of the Land" is the Constitution + Laws + Treaties.
    "In Pursuance thereof"

    Why is that phrase so easily overlooked? What do you think that means?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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