View Poll Results: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

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Thread: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    your historical revisionism is beginning to bore me.
    I pointed out how the Court explicitly granted itself the power of judicial review in Marbury v. Madison. If you can point to where in the Constitution the Court was given that authority, then you're right. If you can't, then you're wrong.

    I await your citation.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #122
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Oh, for crying out loud -- the Court doesn't describe natural law using my explicit words, but if you read past the pomp and circumstance, that's what they mean when they talk about natural law. They don't define natural law because to them it's so obvious that it requires no definition or code. An argument that natural law needed to be taken down and spelled out would be as absurd to the justices who have referenced natural law as the concept that an individual doesn't have the right to defend themselves.
    You have provided nothing to show how the court interpret natural laws, and if they don't use the words you choose, how would we know that they mean what you mean? At this point, I question if you even know what you mean by "natural law".

    Which court said that it's "so obvious that it requires no definition or code"?

    No one argued that it has to be taken down or spelled out, it can't be done because it's not "obvious" as you claimed. The court can only deal with particular cases and set precedents as necessary. So don't come in with the strawman.

    As regard to self-defense, that is governed by the Law, not "natural law", even if everyone believes that it's okay to shoot any stranger that come into one's house, where the Law says that you should only shoot when the stranger is threatening and not running away, you can be punished for acting otherwise, whatever your "natural law" says.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  3. #123
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Society's reaction to the behavior of others is where natural law finds its root. Common sense is another way of describing it. So is self-evident truth. The law defines and proscribes murder, but even if there was no law which specifically did so I can guarantee you that society would have to be very different to respond to murder in any way other than negatively.
    Your guarantee don't mean anything to me. There have been society that do not prohibit murders against certain class of people throughout history. Common sense is just another vague concept which is prone to mistakes.


    Different societies perceive the same issue in different ways. I never tried to argue that natural law is universally the same across the whole of the human race. Very few things are universally the same across the whole of the human race.





    Natural law is as self-enforcing as it is self-evident. I imagine that the number of people who would let slide the crime of cold-blooded murder is far smaller than the number of people who would turn a blind eye to someone smoking pot in the privacy of their own home.
    Which still doesn't support your arguement that "natural law" is supreme in anyway.


    Would you like a dissertation on the color of the sky while you're at it?
    Well, you should try, maybe it will make you understand how your arguements are lacking in logic.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 11-20-11 at 08:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  4. #124
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I pointed out how the Court explicitly granted itself the power of judicial review in Marbury v. Madison.....
    with no quotes, links, or citations.

    its just mere rumor, until you do so.

  5. #125
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    You have provided nothing to show how the court interpret natural laws
    Natural law has come up in a number of cases decided by a number of Supreme Courts. A quick Google search on "natural law supreme court" should light up your screen with examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    and if they don't use the words you choose, how would we know that they mean what you mean?
    There are many ways to say the same thing. All I'm saying is you can't put my words in quotes and ask when the Supreme Court has ever said this or that exact thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    No one argued that it has to be taken down or spelled out
    That seemed to be your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    As regard to self-defense, that is governed by the Law, not "natural law", even if everyone believes that it's okay to shoot any stranger that come into one's house, where the Law says that you should only shoot when the stranger is threatening and not running away, you can be punished for acting otherwise, whatever your "natural law" says.
    The fact that something is codified in the letter of the law doesn't mean it's governed by the law. People are going to defend themselves whether or not the law gives them permission. Self-defense goes back to our basic instincts, and I can't think of something as self-evident as something you do without even consciously thinking about it.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #126
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Your guarantee don't mean anything to me. There have been society that do not prohibit murders against certain class of people throughout history. Common sense is just another vague concept which is prone to mistakes.
    Hey, look at that! Natural law in action! Those societies generally agreed those murders were okay, and presto!
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  7. #127
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    with no quotes, links, or citations.

    its just mere rumor, until you do so.
    I cited Marbury v. Madison. You've cited nothing. Why aren't you able to cite something that proves your interpretation of the Court?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #128
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Natural law has come up in a number of cases decided by a number of Supreme Courts. A quick Google search on "natural law supreme court" should light up your screen with examples.
    Why should I go on a goose chase for you, when your arguement is so weak?


    There are many ways to say the same thing. All I'm saying is you can't put my words in quotes and ask when the Supreme Court has ever said this or that exact thing.
    I'm asking where the supreme court has said anything even relating to what you mean. To quote how people define a term, it is only honest to quote the whole thing. If you can't support what you says when it's quoted in full for you, of what value is anything you say?

    That seemed to be your argument.
    Then you need to keep my posts in full and read for comprehension.


    The fact that something is codified in the letter of the law doesn't mean it's governed by the law.
    In the US, it does.

    People are going to defend themselves whether or not the law gives them permission.
    People are going to kill whether the law gives them permission to do so or not. The point is that they get punished if they go against the Law - which is what makes the Law superior to your "natural law".

    Self-defense goes back to our basic instincts, and I can't think of something as self-evident as something you do without even consciously thinking about it.
    Consciously thinking or not has nothing to do with anything. And "basic instincts" is another vague term. Really, you should try supporting your own arguement instead of making it sound weaker and weaker.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 11-20-11 at 08:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  9. #129
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Hey, look at that! Natural law in action! Those societies generally agreed those murders were okay, and presto!
    Another preacher-like arguement. When out of arguements, just claim that God is at work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  10. #130
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    Re: Is the US Constitution the Supreme Law of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Why should I go on a goose chase for you, when your arguement is so weak?
    You're asking me to prove something which is easily and readily accessible by anyone with an Internet connection and a web browser. Apparently your goal is to argue for the sake of arguing, because the concept of natural law is something that doesn't sit well with you. You're more comfortable assigning it the same credibility you do religion -- which is pretty funny, since I pointed out some obvious real-world examples of natural law in this very thread.

    I'm thinking those posts pre-dated your entry to this thread, and you missed them -- because the only other conclusion I can draw from the way you seem to have missed them is far less charitable.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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