View Poll Results: Are the any hypocrites out there?

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  • Yes, even for Muslims

    5 38.46%
  • No

    1 7.69%
  • I don’t recite the Pledge

    7 53.85%
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Thread: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and...

  1. #41
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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    I never said being deist means he doesn't believe in god. It just means he wasn't christian and wouldn't approve of evangelical right-wing nutjobs trying to shove god down our throats. And ben franklin was confirmed atheist. You are just taking some of his quotes out of context. Here are some quotes that summarize his hate for god.

    "My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself" (Autobiography, p. 66).

    "The time which I devoted to these exercises, and to reading, was the evening after my day's labor was finished, the morning before it began, and Sundays when I could escape divine service. While I lived with my father, he had insisted on my punctual attendance on public worship, and I still indeed considered it as a duty, but a duty which I thought I had no time to practice" (Ibid. P. 16).

    "When he explained to me his tenets, I found many absurdities which I refused to admit. ... Keimer wore his beard long, because Moses had somewhere said, 'Thou shalt not mar the corners of thy beard.' He likewise observed the Sabbath; and these were with him two very essential points. I disliked them both" (Autobiography, p. 40).

    "Revelation, indeed, as such had no influence on my mind" (Ibid, p. 67).

    "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

    "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."

    Your correllation between the listed Franklin quotes and the conclusion that he "hates God" is semi-delusional. Appears that he did have doubts and some disdain for formal/organized services....but there are masses of us out here that have varying degrees of that attitude. Doesn't translate to atheism, or even close. For you to make that jump to the conclusion "he therefore hates God" is a figment of your imagination.


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  2. #42
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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Yes, I do mean it. I want liberty and justice for the millions of unborn children that are murdered each year (See how you can spin anything? )
    Digsbe, you must know that our nation (the entire world, for that matter), has a long ways to go before any "perfection" is achieved...
    We need a better people.

  3. #43
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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I didnt take the poll and the reason is...separating muslims and making it a category to me is dumb....its justice for all americans...if its a muslim AMERICAN just like a Catholic american or a jewish american ...or atheist american....if its a taliban or an alqueda from iran ...hell no....
    Romor on the street is that he was just being snarky when he opened the "poll". We have investigators looking into the matter.....


    “Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.”

  4. #44
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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I've always said the Pledge with meaning and conviction too. But as an adult, I rarely have said the Pledge. I keep wondering where all these people who seem to say/choose not to say it have the opportunity.
    I have the opportunity at least once and sometimes twice a week by accompanying my youngest to Miracle League Baseball, or depending on the season a sport event at his school
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  5. #45
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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    I'm sorry josie but i choose to believe what is correct. I think eventually you will have to too.
    What's hilarious about this statement is that any single person would have the hubris to believe that they are the lone arbiter of what is correct and what is not. In my observations these people often wonder why others dismiss their opinions out of hand.

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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    What's hilarious about this statement is that any single person would have the hubris to believe that they are the lone arbiter of what is correct and what is not. In my observations these people often wonder why others dismiss their opinions out of hand.
    So many assumptions. I don't know where to start. First i will say that i don't decide what is correct and what is incorrect. I just state the facts. It's up to you to believe it. I don't care if people dismiss my opinion but I think they should accept the facts. The fact is that the founding fathers were atheists/deists.
    Last edited by 99percenter; 11-18-11 at 07:26 PM.
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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    I don't recite the Pledge. I haven't as far back as I can remember. I don't support the religious overtones implemented in the 50's. It's unconstitutional. Furthermore, while I do support liberty and justice for all, America clearly does not at this stage of history. So to pledge a belief in liberty and justice to an entity that doesn't embody either of those things seems hypocritical.

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    So many assumptions. I don't know where to start. First i will say that i don't decide what is correct and what is incorrect. I just state the facts. It's up to you to believe it. I don't care if people dismiss my opinion but I think they should accept the facts. The fact is that the founding fathers were atheists/deists.
    Actually they weren't. And the way you describe "atheists" is not what atheism actually is. An atheist can't hate a god they don't believe in. I'm an atheist. I have no emotional feelings towards entities that I don't believe in.

    The Founders were mostly Protestants (predominantly Episcopal), and a significant minority of deists. There are a couple who may have been agnostics or atheists, and several who where anti-clerical Christians (which is what Thomas Jefferson was). But it is blatantly false to say that even a significant minority of them were atheists. There isn't a single one of them for whom the consensus is that they were certainly atheists.

    I know it fits your politics better to believe so. But that doesn't make it true.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 11-18-11 at 07:55 PM.

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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Never said the pledge, as I'm not a citizen. Was a pain in the ass explaining it to my teachers every year, who seemed to feel people who didn't say it were traitors of some sort.
    "The enemy isn’t conservatism. The enemy isn’t liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t."

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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Just to be clear, given the back and forth going on in this thread regarding facts and truth. You can rest assured If I say it is is the absolute truth and none can deny the correctness of my pronouncements. So don't even try.

    Now that we have that straight - please feel free to resume your entertaining debates.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Do You Really Mean It When You Recite The Pledge Of Allegiance “With liberty and.

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    That is why the founding fathers were atheists. They decide to figure out the facts before they believed in a false theory. Eventually they did and rejected the belief in god.
    *whiffs right over his head*
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