I do not really believe that today's society is really so unequal that something drastic must be done.
There is basically no social mobility. I have provided information which shows this. Britain and the US are the worst in the Western world concerning this. However in the period from around 1914 up to 1980's or so that was not the case. During that time we both had high social mobility. Now how you end up is largely dependent on the family you are born into.
Distribution of income and wealth have seen a similar story. I spoke of that in this post
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ovement-represent-99-a-17.html#post1059972780
I am friends with a lot of elderly people that see today as much better in terms of opportunity than when they were young.
Then they are deceiving themselves depending on how old they are. It is reckoned that in 5-10 years we will be at the same level of inequality as in Victorian Times. I was one of those brought up in the times of social mobility and I know that what we worked for is not what we have now. Those elderly you speak to seem to be those who enjoyed getting the goodies for themselves but do not care for those that follow or else those comparing now to Victorian times but if you compare the whole of the 20th Century, you will find that from around 1913 there was a decline in the difference between the richest and the rest of us leading to a steady rise in equality of opportunity and social mobility and this reached it's peak between 1950 and 1980. Since then everything has been in decline, the gap between rich and and the rest of the population broadening all the time until, as said earlier we are nearing the inequality of Victorian Times.
BBC News - UK High Pay Commission: 'Victorian inequality' warning
Even in my life I know that it is easier to obtain wealth now than it was during my youth. No things are not perfect by any means but that is the nature of the world. We have to keep improving the state of things otherwise we end up with stagnation. Hence why there are changes to laws, policies, and regulations through out the years.
Really? Explain exactly how that is because there is no evidence of it. Bring some proof to show that social mobility is now higher than it was in your youth whenever that was. All the research says otherwise.
Ironically while you are calling our community a community based on war as the adhesion in some romantic conspiracy, the basis of your argument is conflict and blame.
No it is based on studying Neo-cons ideology. The 60's terrified them. Liberalism terrified them. democracy terrified them. They decided it was necessary for them 'the elite' to spread 'noble lies' to the ordinary people in order to keep them united and united as to their, the neo con's agenda. United as in being Nationalistic, united as in feeling themselves good and the other bad and united in fighting the evil in the world. It began with spreading lies about the USSR which they managed to get Reagan to believe. It has been going on ever since.
Is there inequality in our society? Yes. Is the Left the only people capable of providing a solution? No,
It is neo Liberal policies which has created the problem. Stop talking of left and right. Just look at the problem.
this country is not just the Left but the Right and the Left and everything in between and beyond. The solutions come from all of us not just one section of society. We are an Representative Democracy so that all sections of our population has a voice. OWS in contrast is a mob rules model of Democracy they will not provide solutions only distractions.
The world recession was caused by the 0.1%. As for who the occupy people are. As you can see the Occupy London people certainly do no limit themselves to any particular view despite how the media may try to portray them
The media can’t seem to make their minds up which of the two we all are down here at the camp. The fact is that we are a diverse grouping of classes, races, nationalities, employment status and political persuasions. This movement is not party political, nor is it class-focused. It stands against corporate greed and against the recklessness of the financial sector, and it recognises that the current political and economic model is only working for those at the top. These are issues that transcend political loyalties and class. We have many protestors here that have jobs, some that don’t, and some that have recently lost jobs. We have teachers, soldiers, civil servants, youth workers, former bankers, musicians. The labelling may serve the media’s agenda – but that alone does not make it true.
Seven Media Sins | TheOccupiedTimes
That's what you are failing to understand.
Of course the longer they survive and grow the stronger will be their influence. People visit
People who choose the career that makes the most money are not evil greedy people,
did I say they necessarily are?
Not necessarily. With the example I gave the first choice was self fulfilment, doing a job which enriches you. Only had that not been possible would my daughter have chosen making as much money as possible - and with her it would not have been at the exploitation of others.
Some people dont really care what career that they are in. That is just how some people are. It does not make them bad people. It is logical that is you sell your time to someone else that wanting to be rewarded more for your time makes more sense than less. We only live for a short time and time is worth a premium to humans. No one should be made to feel guilty for insisting that their time is worth X amount to them.
All people's time is valuable. It is their life. People should indeed take care how they spend their time.
I often wonder if more compensation for ones time is wrong, then are you suggesting that people are making too much?
You are changing what I am saying. I am saying we need equality of opportunity and social mobility.
Who decides what desires and what goals are morally corrupted? I have known people that worked their entire 80 years of life at low paying jobs and not once did they complain in their old age. They were happy even during the Great Depression.
My God, now you know people who were in the 1930's depression on low paid jobs and enjoyed it - pull the other one. Unlike them, I lived through the times when we had opportunity. The people who are reaching retirement now are those people. Having worked for such opportunities themselves why should they not fight for it for the young? You are not talking about reality.
Perceptions are a funny thing. While you were fearing a slide to the far Right others see it as a slide to the far Left. Obviously someone is wrong.
For the past 30 years I have seen us move more and more to the right. It is the nature of things that they move to a certain extreme and then move back. From around 1914 to the late 70's both the US and the UK worked towards creating a meritocratic society, one which aimed at the ideal of providing equality of opportunity, social mobility and ending extremes of power invested in people due to their indecent wealth. In the '60's and 70's we had for the first time ever people growing up who were able in large numbers through no reason other than hard work and ability to change their situation in life. This also led to people from all kinds of backgrounds managing to get a good education....and what did this lead to....mass rebellion. The Status quo was turned upside down, women claimed equality with men, gays were accepted for who they were, people demanded that all the people of the United States regardless of their colour be treated as equal, education tried to do what the original idea was - that is to draw out of people rather than to simply cram in ....and for the US possibly the most devastating of all, her own people seeing what was happening in Vietnam turned against her own government's actions. All these things created a terrifying fear in those who were to become the neo con's.
Then along came a recession and all was changed back but people didn't really notice too well what was happening, particularly after 9/11 when people became afraid to say their point of view.
I think probably the '60's suffered from idealism which needed something deeper than was there. Indeed we saw a lot of people quickly change over when the political climate changed.
Now we have the top 0.1% with such obscene amounts of money they virtually are running the show and they are responsible for the situation that so many people are suffering from. Does it matter to them? Of course not. They are not suffering. What will happen to for instance Ireland which has suffered significantly from this debauchery if she is unable to live up to her commitments - think Indonesia.
The Occupy Movement is just people speaking up when change must happen. People from all over the world standing up in solidarity. This time we need to sort it out and come to where our centre is that we can move on in peace and stability. We allowed our progress to be stolen from us too easily last time. Hopefully this time we will find our centre.
We Can Do It! - HerStory