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Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    Votes: 11 14.5%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    Votes: 20 26.3%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    Votes: 17 22.4%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    Votes: 28 36.8%

  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .
You do not seem to understand the significance of the New York General Assembly. Do you even understand what the Occupy General Assembly is? The General Assembly as used by all of the Occupations is a model of a system which is Anarchy. Why do you think the Occupy movement is leaderless?

But dont take my word for it.


Don't worry, I didn't:

"Open assemblies like the GA have roots in classical anarchism, Native American tribal councils, Quakerism, and the post–World War II feminist, civil-rights, and anti-nuclear movements, Scheider said. -- "Ask those who have been at Liberty Plaza since the beginning, and you’ll probably hear about the influence of the assembly-based May 15 movement in Spain...."

COMMENTARY: Mechanics and origins of OWS non-hierarchical general assembly process
 
Sorry, I'm busy having a life.

Well why whine that your are in the dark about what's going on in the country then?
 
Well why whine that your are in the dark about what's going on in the country then?

Oh, my bad, I was supposed to be a statement of pride, that I have better things to do. Carry on.
 
I don't suppose you know what they mean. How can someone be a statist and an anarchist? They are contradictory terms (or the term mutually exclusive).

in a society where we havent' deliberately used the state to set one interest against another, that would be correct - however, as states are forced to reduce their domestic spending, we have actually seen surges in pro-statist anarchy (particularly in the form of riots) across the West. The rioters in Greece that burned down a bank with the workers trapped inside were mostly government workers, but they are hardly the only example - and the OWS crowd is our own home-grown.

remember, these people see the state as a redistributive mechanism - with themselves as the rightful benefactors. there is no particular reason why they would suppose that the rule of law therefore applied to them.
 
Neither do the majority of tens of thousands of OWS protesters attack police or innocents.

and the vast majority of members of the military do not kill people. obviously the military is not an organization built around violence.

Yes, Gandhi, the civil rights movement, the Vietnam protesters, all occupied public areas. What part of civil disobedience do you not understand? I myself helped block the main entrance to the Wright-Patterson AFB during the Vietnam war, and we handcuffed ourselves together after surrounding the federal building in Harrisburg, PA.

then you should have been arrested and I hope you were - just like the OWS crowd should be. if you want to engage in civil disobedience, you accept the price of that. if your "civil disobedience" includes molotovs and hurling pieces of concrete, then the price will be rubber bullets if you are lucky. if your "civil disobedience" is illegal occupation, then you will be arrested and should spend at least a night in prison.

Occupy Oakland Calls For Shutdown Of ALL West Coast Ports

civil disobedience? this is economic warfare, and the idiots don't even realize they are waging it against our working and middle class.
 
I have read about the Vietnam War protests at Kent State.
Not so funny at all....how history repeats itself.
Non violence does not always work.

First of all theres a different story to tell about Kent State that of course you wont hear...Back in 1970 the Military Reserves and the National Guard...were totally different than they are today...today the Guard is a good portion of the regular military doing tour after tour of active duty.
Most of the reserves and guards in 1970 were ill trained and never saw active duty...they were referred to as weekend warriors thad did one weekend a month and 2 weeks a year of "SUPPOSED" training..many just hung around all day on their weekend and they all went home every night. They werent trained to be used as they were used at Kent State.
What you dont see and know about kent state is that the National Guard had to retreat several times...amidst massive throwing attacks by a huge group of students throwing rocks and bottles at them...after retreating as far back as the commander on the ground felt they could go...he wrongfully gave the order to open fire....There wasnt enough Guard there in the first place for any type of attempt at non violent crowd control...KENT STATE was a cluster 2p;op and does not at all relate to the OWS protests
 
And ultimately, themselves.

From where do they think the money comes, to pay for their food stamps, and other handouts?

It's a very poor parasite that kills the host which it needs to survive.

well, nature tends to weed out the parasites that do. unfortunately, it does so by killing the hosts that are unable to kill off or otherwise limit the parasites themselves.
 
Of course not. The "1%" in America are typically very wealthy. Most of us posting here are not the very wealthy 1%. Not all of us are in agreement. Ergo, the OWS does not reperesent the 99% because there are quite a few people who disagree with them.
 
Don't worry, I didn't:

"Open assemblies like the GA have roots in classical anarchism, Native American tribal councils, Quakerism, and the post–World War II feminist, civil-rights, and anti-nuclear movements, Scheider said. -- "Ask those who have been at Liberty Plaza since the beginning, and you’ll probably hear about the influence of the assembly-based May 15 movement in Spain...."

COMMENTARY: Mechanics and origins of OWS non-hierarchical general assembly process

Your source is Harper Magazine. While my source was the actual New York City General Assembly. I already gave this link once: Liberty Plaza Anarchist College Seeks Teacher/Facilitators | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street

Read the comments.
Cast said on October 21, 2011
John, I wish to address you with respect, but throughout your note you left little respect for myself and other anarchists. I hope you and others who will read this will understand that my unwillingness to accept your rude opinions with polite kindness. To begin, I can understand your fear, but I’ll not forgive you as you “take 5 steps back. I don’t encourage others to forgive you for lack of courage, either. Why would you prefer a “democracy” college? Because it already sits well with your preconceptions of what is morally acceptable? I encourage you to question your upbringing. The experience of this occupation is already outside of the bounds of “democracy” as understood in political science. The consensus decision making process being exercised at Occupy Wall Street, and now at occupied sites throughout the country, is an extension of anarchist philosophy. If you prefer democracy, you are invited to vote on your preferences and accept a majority held vote — but do not expect consensus.

If this anarchist college would help rehabilitate the soured reputation of anarchist philosophy, a body of thought that goes back to the early 1800s. It is true that a slim minority respects anarchism now, but that will hardly change without effort on our part. The horizontalist composition of Occupy Wall Street already presents a solid argument for the practical aspects of anarchist theory and practice. Can we not take this opportunity to encourage society to reassess its prejudices?

That you do not agree with anarchism is fine, but your prejudices that it is “infantile, impossible ideology detached from science” are put down immediately by an understanding of anarchist philosophy. No philosophy is inherently infantile, except to minds already too small to consider them in good faith. And of science? All political philosophy is detached from the hard calculations of “science.” Science gives answers, while philosophy asks questions. Your appeal to rationalism falls flat when you consider that Liberalism and its system of Democracy is also detached from science. However, anarchism is not detached from scientists. Many notable anarchists of the 1800s were attracted to anarchism precisely because they saw it as the most scientific of the socialist projects. Peter Kropotkin, a Russian botanist and evolutionary biologist, was attracted to anarchism due to its association with his studies in the field and crated the school of “anarchist communism” as a result. Elle Recluse, a French geologist, was a well respected anarchist who contributed to early studies in environmentalism, decades ahead of his time.

The contributions of anarchism and anarchists to Occupy Wall Street’s success thus far should be appreciated by everyone; not derided as causing “failure to create meaningful; organization” (sic). Anarchists are not inherently against organization, but merely hierarchical organizations that strip participants of power. Your problems with other organizations and movements is none of our concern, unless you can justifbly link your problems with a similar source. Take your “Venus Project” fears back to your therapist if your feeling paranoid. The rest of us are too busy trying to fix our own problems to have to fix yours — your fears, prejudices, ignorance, and paranoia — as well.

The parts I put in bold point to the type of Anarchism this Occupier is talking about. Now I realize that the Occupy movement is diverse. That there many different factions that claim ownership of the movement. That some of those groups even do not like each other Like Liberals do not like the Black Blocs nor the Red Blocs. And by the same note all of the different groups in in the Occupy movement hate and blame Liberals for the mess that we are in. they assert that Liberals and Conservatives are the same breed and are the ones that they are fighting against.

What you need to understand is that Liberals are not welcome in the Occupy movement. The movement does not seek reform it seeks Revolution. The Liberals are just being used for the Occupiers goals. In fact The Occupy movement is very Anti-Obama, they are not seeking Obamas re-election. They have decided either that voting is pointless in out current system or if they do vote they will vote Green or write in Noam Chomsky. Anything in their view would be better than Obama. And they also think anything would be better than supporting the DNC. See they believe that the entire two party system has moved to the extreme Right, and therefor must go.

But I do not care to make up your mind for you. If you want to believe that OWS is not Anarcho Communism that is your choice. I have given you plenty of starting points, investigate them for yourself.
 
Your source is Harper Magazine. While my source was the actual New York City General Assembly. I already gave this link once: Liberty Plaza Anarchist College Seeks Teacher/Facilitators | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street

Read the comments.

The parts I put in bold point to the type of Anarchism this Occupier is talking about. Now I realize that the Occupy movement is diverse. That there many different factions that claim ownership of the movement. That some of those groups even do not like each other Like Liberals do not like the Black Blocs nor the Red Blocs. And by the same note all of the different groups in in the Occupy movement hate and blame Liberals for the mess that we are in. they assert that Liberals and Conservatives are the same breed and are the ones that they are fighting against.

What you need to understand is that Liberals are not welcome in the Occupy movement. The movement does not seek reform it seeks Revolution. The Liberals are just being used for the Occupiers goals. In fact The Occupy movement is very Anti-Obama, they are not seeking Obamas re-election. They have decided either that voting is pointless in out current system or if they do vote they will vote Green or write in Noam Chomsky. Anything in their view would be better than Obama. And they also think anything would be better than supporting the DNC. See they believe that the entire two party system has moved to the extreme Right, and therefor must go.

But I do not care to make up your mind for you. If you want to believe that OWS is not Anarcho Communism that is your choice. I have given you plenty of starting points, investigate them for yourself.

How can a movement that in its very essence calls for more legislation and regulations be classified as an anarchist movement? That has to be some twisted logic.
 
How can a movement that in its very essence calls for more legislation and regulations be classified as an anarchist movement? That has to be some twisted logic.

Anarcho Communism is not the same as simple Anarchy. Anarcho Communism is simply anti-Leninism Communism. "Anarchists are not inherently against organization, but merely hierarchical organizations that strip participants of power."
 
I still have no idea what all the fuss is about...like, at all.
no need to confirm the obvious
as is found by reading the remainder of your post:

Everything was going along just fine, then all of a sudden one day there were stories of thousands of people protesting nothing coherent, meaningless platitudes which read like horoscopes and can mean anything the reader wants them to mean were chanted, and the news media, always keen to talk about nothing important, would speak of nothing else.
 
then you should have been arrested and I hope you were - just like the OWS crowd should be. if you want to engage in civil disobedience, you accept the price of that.
Oh yes, we were arrested, we knew we would be during the planning phase months before. We were quite aware that blocking the main entrance to an AFB was illegal. but it was extremely effective in the attention it gained for the cause of ending the war. Just as with the OWS protesters, we felt is was worth going to jail to stand up for our beliefs.

if your "civil disobedience" includes molotovs and hurling pieces of concrete, then the price will be rubber bullets if you are lucky. if your "civil disobedience" is illegal occupation, then you will be arrested and should spend at least a night in prison.

Just as with the OWS, the great majority of Vietnam protesters were non-violent. Both of the big demonstrations I was involved in were completely non-violent.

Occupy Oakland Calls For Shutdown Of ALL West Coast Ports

civil disobedience? this is economic warfare, and the idiots don't even realize they are waging it against our working and middle class.

"Longshoremen and warehouse workers in Longview, Washington were in the news recently when they shutdown ports in the Pacific Northwest and held security officers hostage, over contract disputes with EGT. And OWS mentions them specifically in their call to action.

Occupy Oakland expands this call to the entire West Coast, and calls for continuing solidarity with the Longshoremen in Longview Washington in their ongoing struggle against the EGT. The EGT is an international grain exporter led by Bunge LTD, a company constituted of 1% bankers whose practices have ruined the lives of the working class all over the world, from Argentina to the West Coast of the US. During the November 2nd General Strike, tens of thousands shutdown the Port Of Oakland as a warning shot to EGT to stop its attacks on Longview. Since the EGT has disregarded this message, and continues to attack the Longshoremen at Longview, we will now shut down ports along the entire West Coast.

OWS further says that if any action is taken against longshoremen as a result of the protest "additional actions should be prepared, and in the event of police response, shutdowns may extend "to multiple days."

Occupy Los Angeles has also unanimously approved the movement and hastens to point out the SSA terminals at the Port of Los Angeles are owned by Goldman Sachs."

Read more: Protesters Have A New Action Plan, And This Time It Could Seriously Hurt The Economy
 
Oh yes, we were arrested, we knew we would be during the planning phase months before. We were quite aware that blocking the main entrance to an AFB was illegal. but it was extremely effective in the attention it gained for the cause of ending the war. Just as with the OWS protesters, we felt is was worth going to jail to stand up for our beliefs.



Just as with the OWS, the great majority of Vietnam protesters were non-violent. Both of the big demonstrations I was involved in were completely non-violent.



"Longshoremen and warehouse workers in Longview, Washington were in the news recently when they shutdown ports in the Pacific Northwest and held security officers hostage, over contract disputes with EGT. And OWS mentions them specifically in their call to action.

Occupy Oakland expands this call to the entire West Coast, and calls for continuing solidarity with the Longshoremen in Longview Washington in their ongoing struggle against the EGT. The EGT is an international grain exporter led by Bunge LTD, a company constituted of 1% bankers whose practices have ruined the lives of the working class all over the world, from Argentina to the West Coast of the US. During the November 2nd General Strike, tens of thousands shutdown the Port Of Oakland as a warning shot to EGT to stop its attacks on Longview. Since the EGT has disregarded this message, and continues to attack the Longshoremen at Longview, we will now shut down ports along the entire West Coast.

OWS further says that if any action is taken against longshoremen as a result of the protest "additional actions should be prepared, and in the event of police response, shutdowns may extend "to multiple days."

Occupy Los Angeles has also unanimously approved the movement and hastens to point out the SSA terminals at the Port of Los Angeles are owned by Goldman Sachs."

Read more: Protesters Have A New Action Plan, And This Time It Could Seriously Hurt The Economy


Here is the link to Occupy Oakland: Occupy Oakland Calls for TOTAL WEST COAST PORT SHUTDOWN ON 12/12 - Occupy Oakland

The Occupy movement blatantly has admitted their purpose to commit what could be considered an terrorist operation by some people.
"Occupy Oakland calls for the blockade and disruption of the economic apparatus of the 1% with a coordinated shutdown of ports on the entire West Coast on December 12th. "

The terms "blockade" and "disruption of the economic apparatus" and "coordinated shutdown" and "entire West Coast " are key concepts that could get them into trouble.

"Blockade: the isolating, closing off, or surrounding of a place, as a port, harbor, or city, by hostile ships or troops to prevent entrance or exit." Since the action being announced is to shutdown ports I think that the definition I used is correct. It is a term used specifically in the same context it is an hostile action.

"Disruption of the economic apparatus": By all definitions this is considered Economic Terrorism.
The term economic terrorism is strictly defined to indicate an attempt at economic destabilization by a group. More precisely, in 2005 the Geneva Centre for Security Policy defined economic terrorism in the following terms:
Contrary to "economic warfare" which is undertaken by states against other states, "economic terrorism" would be undertaken by transnational or non-state actors. This could entail varied, coordinated and sophisticated or massive destabilizing actions in order to disrupt the economic and financial stability of a state, a group of states or a society (such as market oriented western societies) for ideological or religious motives. These actions, if undertaken, may be violent or not. They could have either immediate effects or carry psychological effects which in turn have economic consequences.[1]

Coordinated shutdown: Shows the organized intent by the group and movement.

Entire west coast shutdown: Makes the action a regional rather than localized action. That on top of the "occupations nationally, it will almost certainly bring the Feds in on it. And if the operation is extended as threatened Homeland security will have to do something. No Government can have their ports blockaded by a group foreign or domestic in origin. And it is ridiculous of the Occupy movement to be so hostile when they claim to be non-violent. Occupy Oakland has outlined not a protest but a hostile militant action. And they expect people to do it for them.

They cannot hide behind the leaderless claim when the General Assemblies are calling the shots. The Oakland General Assembly came to the consensus and are requiring other General Assemblies to obey their request. Which shows organizational hierarchy (how ironic).

The 1% has disrupted the lives of longshoremen and port truckers and the workers who create their wealth, just as coordinated nationwide police attacks have turned our cities into battlegrounds in an effort to disrupt our Occupy movement.
This is what is called revenge. The Occupy movement has moved away from the Occupation stage and is moving into the hostile stage from here it is all downhill.
 
Here is the link to Occupy Oakland: Occupy Oakland Calls for TOTAL WEST COAST PORT SHUTDOWN ON 12/12 - Occupy Oakland

The Occupy movement blatantly has admitted their purpose to commit what could be considered an terrorist operation by some people.

The terms "blockade" and "disruption of the economic apparatus" and "coordinated shutdown" and "entire West Coast " are key concepts that could get them into trouble.

"Blockade: the isolating, closing off, or surrounding of a place, as a port, harbor, or city, by hostile ships or troops to prevent entrance or exit." Since the action being announced is to shutdown ports I think that the definition I used is correct. It is a term used specifically in the same context it is an hostile action.

"Disruption of the economic apparatus": By all definitions this is considered Economic Terrorism.

Coordinated shutdown: Shows the organized intent by the group and movement.

Entire west coast shutdown: Makes the action a regional rather than localized action. That on top of the "occupations nationally, it will almost certainly bring the Feds in on it. And if the operation is extended as threatened Homeland security will have to do something. No Government can have their ports blockaded by a group foreign or domestic in origin. And it is ridiculous of the Occupy movement to be so hostile when they claim to be non-violent. Occupy Oakland has outlined not a protest but a hostile militant action. And they expect people to do it for them.

They cannot hide behind the leaderless claim when the General Assemblies are calling the shots. The Oakland General Assembly came to the consensus and are requiring other General Assemblies to obey their request. Which shows organizational hierarchy (how ironic).

This is what is called revenge. The Occupy movement has moved away from the Occupation stage and is moving into the hostile stage from here it is all downhill.

You are too easily frightened. The protesters will have as much success shutting down the ports as the Vietnam Veterans Against The War protest I was involved had in shutting down Wright Patterson AFB that we blocked the main entrance to.
 
They represent maybe 2-5%...everyone is always throwing about figures and percentages but take the time to do research and you will find that they are usually wrong...sometimes on purpose.
 
They represent maybe 2-5%...everyone is always throwing about figures and percentages but take the time to do research and you will find that they are usually wrong...sometimes on purpose.

got to laugh at these kinds of posts
telling us that 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot
 
They represent maybe 2-5%...everyone is always throwing about figures and percentages but take the time to do research and you will find that they are usually wrong...sometimes on purpose.

Yeah, I heard it was 4.6-8%, but whatever.
 
You are too easily frightened. The protesters will have as much success shutting down the ports as the Vietnam Veterans Against The War protest I was involved had in shutting down Wright Patterson AFB that we blocked the main entrance to.

I am not worried about success I am concerned about intent.
 
You are too easily frightened. The protesters will have as much success shutting down the ports as the Vietnam Veterans Against The War protest I was involved had in shutting down Wright Patterson AFB that we blocked the main entrance to.

let me get this straight. attempts to launch campaigns of violence (potentially you could call this terrorism) aren't important unless you are actually successful at achieving your goals.


their failure does not excuse them. hopefully these idiots wind up in prison for actual serious sentences.
 
No, they don't represent the 99%. They claim to but they don't. I'm not sure they even have majority support.
 
got to laugh at these kinds of posts
telling us that 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot

Most politicians make up percentages on-the-spot...the media however squewers them to slant them in the direction they want to push...99% is a bogus representation of people who want to behead rich people and take their money for themselves...
 
Oh yes, we were arrested, we knew we would be during the planning phase months before. We were quite aware that blocking the main entrance to an AFB was illegal. but it was extremely effective in the attention it gained for the cause of ending the war. Just as with the OWS protesters, we felt is was worth going to jail to stand up for our beliefs.

:shrug: if you're nonviolent and willing to go to jail - fine. unfortunately, that does not describe OWS.

"Longshoremen and warehouse workers in Longview, Washington were in the news recently when they shutdown ports in the Pacific Northwest and held security officers hostage, over contract disputes with EGT. And OWS mentions them specifically in their call to action.

yes. if you will recall, hostage taking in the pursuit of political goals is terrorism. if OWS starts taking hostages, then they deserve snipers.

OWS further says that if any action is taken against longshoremen as a result of the protest "additional actions should be prepared, and in the event of police response, shutdowns may extend "to multiple days."

then they should be willing to reap the consequences of those actions, and the longshoremen should all be fired. if they attempt to invade the property again, they should be shot. crime should come with consequences. we have 9% official unemployment in this nation and significantly higher real unemployment - i'm betting willing workers won't be that impossible to find.


yes. that is why this plan is abysmally stupid. not only does it harm the people that OWS claims to be speaking for the most, it pisses off the vast majority of Americans who do not approve of such tactics and do not wish to have their pay reduced or lose their jobs so that OWS can throw a temper tantrum.
 
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