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Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    Votes: 11 14.5%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    Votes: 20 26.3%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    Votes: 17 22.4%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    Votes: 28 36.8%

  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .
do you find it always necessary to refer to those you disagree with, by offensive & childish epithets?

I call the OWS people as I see them. truth is what I do here. BTW what does this post of yours suggest?


I'm sorry, but I cut off your post once it lost all logical and rationality.
 
really? that's funny...as OWSNY has never listed any goals, especially the overthrow of Capitalism and the imposition of Communism by violent means.

you must have some amazing inside sources.
The declaration by NYCGA (they are the ones that started OWS) is very anti-Capitalism. What do you think the entire anti Wall street thing is about? Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard
They are definitely demanding "direct democracy" as the goal.

And then there is this:
We must be accountable to ourselves. First and foremost, we are calling upon ourselves, and upon one another, to wake up and employ our power as citizens: to participate rather than observe, to raise our strong voices together, rather than complaining feebly in isolation. We cannot ‘whine’ about the injustices wreaked upon us if we have been complacent and silent in the face of these injustices. We must take responsibility for our own futures – and here at Liberty Plaza, that is exactly what we are doing, by modeling the kind of society in which everyone has a right to live. Here in Liberty Plaza, having lost our sense that we live in a democracy, we are reclaiming its practice.
Our government must be accountable to us, and corporations must be accountable to the government. We are saying definitively: We no longer live in a democracy, and we refuse to accept that. We seek an end to the collusion between corrupt politicians and corporate criminals, as democratic and capitalist institutions have become conflated. As such we must see major advances in the arena of the relationship between corporations, and people, on par with the amendments which outlawed slavery and assured civil rights to all people regardless of race, sex, or class. FAQ | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street

They defiantly are anti-Capitalism. But lets get back to those demands:
So this leads back to the question: Why do we seem to have not just one, but many demands? We are not
simply asking for an end to the war (we have already done that). We are not simply asking for equal rights
for one group or another (we have already done that). We are not asking for respect for the earth and its
remaining resources (we have already done that). We are not calling for changes to existing labor laws, or
trade agreements (we have already done that). We are not even calling for an overhaul of the Securities and
Exchange Commission or the Federal Reserve, or an end to corporate personhood. We are calling for all these
things and more!

So why do we seem to have not just one, but many demands? Precisely because we are a movement descended
from each and every one of these movements: The abolitionist movement, the workers’ rights movement,
the women’s movement, the civil rights movement, the feminist and queer liberation movements, the
environmental movement. We welcome all who will join in this exercise of participatory democracy, as we
challenge what we know to be the greatest obstacle to the democratic progression of these movements. http://www.nycga.net/resources/faq/
 
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For those that don't seem to know the difference:

Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism


"Reports in the media (and most conservatives, natch) have been attempting to label the OWS movement as anti-capitalist, and the label seems to be catching on, but nothing could be further from the truth. What "We Are the 99%" clearly and directly signifies is that OWS is anti-oligarchy, not anti-capitalism. And anti-oligarchy is easily the best label for the movement.

Oligarchies have always been, and will always be, the greatest enemy of collective social good. Oligarchies concentrate power in the hands of the few, disempower the rest and impose their rule upon the masses. Throughout most of recorded history, oligarchies governed the masses directly -- as divine monarchs, as non-democratically-elected dictators, or as the heads of religious nation-states (and sometimes as a combination of all three)."

"Our current oligarchy found corruptible, money-hungry politicians on both sides of the political aisle, but its strongest ally has undoubtedly been the modern GOP. In the last three decades the Republican Party has proven itself pro-oligarchy in absolutely everything it does--and not just in its capitalist wing, but in its theocratic wing as well (though often it seems GOP leaders pander to the theocrats). These two factions sometimes clash as the oligarchic heads of both groups try to assert and assume power over the other, but both have found a very sympathetic ally in the GOP; a political party that now proudly announces declares itself the defender of the powerful against the weak."

Sprizouse: Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism
 
For those that don't seem to know the difference:

Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism


"Reports in the media (and most conservatives, natch) have been attempting to label the OWS movement as anti-capitalist, and the label seems to be catching on, but nothing could be further from the truth. What "We Are the 99%" clearly and directly signifies is that OWS is anti-oligarchy, not anti-capitalism.
OWS is very anti-Capitalism. As documented OWS was started and is being maintained by Anarchist Socialism. The General Assembly all the way down to their hand signals was created by Anarcho Communist's. And is a well known fact that Anarcho Communists are anti-Capitalists. 6246265802_3ff936de54.jpg
 
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OWS is very anti-Capitalism. As documented OWS was started and is being maintained by Anarchist Socialism. The General Assembly all the way down to their hand signals was created by Anarcho Communist's. And is a well known fact that Anarcho Communists are anti-Capitalists. View attachment 67118589

An Anarchist member group of OWS does not equate to OWS as being anarchist. Anarchist, do not utilize non-violent civil disobedience as OWS has done nationwide.

Their stated goal is economic justice, not anarchy, but nice try.
 
So I will have to take your word that Korean are the only protests on the planet that are more non-violent than the OWS protests?

uh oh, what's this:

"SEOUL, South Korea — The government of President Lee Myung-bak sealed off major rallying points in central Seoul on Sunday after hundreds of citizens and police officers were injured during a protest against United States beef imports.

Police buses cordoned off plazas and intersections where large crowds have gathered almost daily since early May to demand that the government renegotiate the deal. Police officers blocked subway entrances and alleys leading to those rallying points.

Still, protesters broke into several groups of hundreds and marched Sunday evening, engaging in sporadic shoving matches with the police.

Justice Minister Kim Kyung-han said in a statement on Sunday, “We will chase those who instigate violent protests and those who use violence to the end and bring them to justice.”
Beef Protest Turns Violent in South Korea - NYTimes.com


"Union leader warns of violence during G20 protests in South Korea"
Union leader warns of violence during G20 protests in South Korea - CSMonitor.com

"S. Korea: Protests turn violent near APEC venue(Photos of Pinkos Acting Up)
S. Korea: Protests turn violent near APEC venue(Photos of Pinkos Acting Up)

Those were the only ones I knew about.
That protest lasted for weeks, and that was three years ago. Massive fail.
I also said that thsoe protests were the only ones I knew about. Unlike OWS, the protest against US beef was because Lee-Myung-Bak provoked violence by sending out high-pressure water cannons to dissolve the protest. OWS is different, because unlike the Korean one against US beef, they public did drugs, assaulted the police which was unarmed and was just standing guard, has no viable solution or message, attacked innocent bystanders and likewise denied access to thousands in public areas.
 
For those that don't seem to know the difference:

Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism


"Reports in the media (and most conservatives, natch) have been attempting to label the OWS movement as anti-capitalist, and the label seems to be catching on, but nothing could be further from the truth. What "We Are the 99%" clearly and directly signifies is that OWS is anti-oligarchy, not anti-capitalism. And anti-oligarchy is easily the best label for the movement.

Oligarchies have always been, and will always be, the greatest enemy of collective social good. Oligarchies concentrate power in the hands of the few, disempower the rest and impose their rule upon the masses. Throughout most of recorded history, oligarchies governed the masses directly -- as divine monarchs, as non-democratically-elected dictators, or as the heads of religious nation-states (and sometimes as a combination of all three)."

"Our current oligarchy found corruptible, money-hungry politicians on both sides of the political aisle, but its strongest ally has undoubtedly been the modern GOP. In the last three decades the Republican Party has proven itself pro-oligarchy in absolutely everything it does--and not just in its capitalist wing, but in its theocratic wing as well (though often it seems GOP leaders pander to the theocrats). These two factions sometimes clash as the oligarchic heads of both groups try to assert and assume power over the other, but both have found a very sympathetic ally in the GOP; a political party that now proudly announces declares itself the defender of the powerful against the weak."

Sprizouse: Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism

Again, fail. Oligarchy is a type of government, not a social system.
It also declared that the GOP only gets donations from corporate power, the Democrats take about as much "dirty" money as the GOP.
Another hyperpartisan article. Where do you get them?
 
Nobel prize winning economist, Joseph Stiglitz, explains at an OWS teach-in what's broken with our system.

 
Those were the only ones I knew about.
That protest lasted for weeks, and that was three years ago. Massive fail.
I also said that thsoe protests were the only ones I knew about. Unlike OWS, the protest against US beef was because Lee-Myung-Bak provoked violence by sending out high-pressure water cannons to dissolve the protest. OWS is different, because unlike the Korean one against US beef, they public did drugs, assaulted the police which was unarmed and was just standing guard, has no viable solution or message, attacked innocent bystanders and likewise denied access to thousands in public areas.
how dare you cat?
damn it, quit posting cites with facts, undermining korean's bogus assertions
 
Those were the only ones I knew about.
That protest lasted for weeks, and that was three years ago. Massive fail.
I also said that thsoe protests were the only ones I knew about. Unlike OWS, the protest against US beef was because Lee-Myung-Bak provoked violence by sending out high-pressure water cannons to dissolve the protest. OWS is different, because unlike the Korean one against US beef, they public did drugs, assaulted the police which was unarmed and was just standing guard, has no viable solution or message, attacked innocent bystanders and likewise denied access to thousands in public areas.

Not sure where you have been getting your information but the great majority of the tens of thousands of OWS protesters around the country have been non-violent.
 
Not sure where you have been getting your information but the great majority of the tens of thousands of OWS protesters around the country have been non-violent.

Oh right, then I'll assume that they haven't occupied public areas forcibly. They can't occupy a public area which is open to the public when the police asks them repeatedly to move. Is that too hard to follow?
 
Again, fail. Oligarchy is a type of government, not a social system.

No one said it was a social system. Is this the statement you misinterpreted?

"Oligarchies have always been, and will always be, the greatest enemy of collective social good."


It also declared that the GOP only gets donations from corporate power, the Democrats take about as much "dirty" money as the GOP.
Another hyperpartisan article. Where do you get them?

You mean when they said this, "Our current oligarchy found corruptible, money-hungry politicians on both sides of the political aisle, but its strongest ally has undoubtedly been the modern GOP.
 
No one said it was a social system. Is this the statement you misinterpreted?

"Oligarchies have always been, and will always be, the greatest enemy of collective social good."




You mean when they said this, "Our current oligarchy found corruptible, money-hungry politicians on both sides of the political aisle, but its strongest ally has undoubtedly been the modern GOP.

The article should have mentioned that the GOP is stronger by about a few pennies
 
Anybody else noticing the awesome results of this poll?
 
Oh right, then I'll assume that they haven't occupied public areas forcibly. They can't occupy a public area which is open to the public when the police asks them repeatedly to move. Is that too hard to follow?

Apparently you have failed to grasp that the basis of non-violent civil disobedience is non-violence. Have you never read about the non-violent civil disobedience of Gandhi, or the civil rights movement, or the Vietnam war protests?
 
Apparently you have failed to grasp that the basis of non-violent civil disobedience is non-violence. Have you never read about the non-violent civil disobedience of Gandhi, or the civil rights movement, or the Vietnam war protests?

They didn't attack police, innocents, nor occupy public areas that are vital to the public such as the port in Portland
 
Anybody else noticing the awesome results of this poll?

What poll? The OP is not a public poll so its accuracy cannot be verified.

What is notable is the real polls that show the OWS has twice the popularity of the Republicans.
 
They didn't attack police, innocents, nor occupy public areas that are vital to the public such as the port in Portland

Neither do the majority of tens of thousands of OWS protesters attack police or innocents.

Yes, Gandhi, the civil rights movement, the Vietnam protesters, all occupied public areas. What part of civil disobedience do you not understand? I myself helped block the main entrance to the Wright-Patterson AFB during the Vietnam war, and we handcuffed ourselves together after surrounding the federal building in Harrisburg, PA.
 
Apparently you have failed to grasp that the basis of non-violent civil disobedience is non-violence. Have you never read about the non-violent civil disobedience of Gandhi, or the civil rights movement, or the Vietnam war protests?
I have read about the Vietnam War protests at Kent State.
Not so funny at all....how history repeats itself.
Non violence does not always work.
 
I have read about the Vietnam War protests at Kent State.
Not so funny at all....how history repeats itself.
Non violence does not always work.

Depends on how you mean that. Yes, those that practice non-violent protest are subject to arrest, physical harm and even death, as your example at Kent State reveals. Non-violent civil disobedience takes no small amount of bravery. However, Gandhi was successful at gaining the independence for India, the Civil Rights Movement was successful in ending segregation, the anti-war protesters were successful with their goal of helping bring about the end to the Vietnam war, the list goes on and on.

From my reading it seems more often than not, if non-violent protests can be sustained, they are usually effective.

Here is a bit of History of Mass Nonviolent Action:

"The use of nonviolence runs throughout history. There have been numerous instances of people courageously and nonviolently refusing cooperation with injustice. However, the fusion of organized mass struggle and nonviolence is relatively new. It originated largely with Mohandas Gandhi in 1906 at the onset of the South African campaign for Indian rights. Later, the Indian struggle for complete independence from the British Empire included a number of spectacular nonviolent campaigns. Perhaps the most notable was the year-long Salt campaign in which 100,000 Indians were jailed for deliberately violating the Salt Laws.
The refusal to counter the violence of the repressive social system with more violence is a tactic that has also been used by other movements. The militant campaign for women's suffrage in Britain included a variety of nonviolent tactics such as boycotts, noncooperation, limited property destruction, civil disobedience, mass marches and demonstrations, filling the jails, and disruption of public ceremonies.

The Salvadoran people have used nonviolence as one powerful and necessary element of their struggle. Particularly during the 1960s and 70s, Christian based communities, labor unions, campesino organizations, and student groups held occupations and sit-ins at universities, government offices, and places of work such as factories and haciendas.
There is rich tradition of nonviolent protest in this country as well, including Harriet Tubman's underground railroad during the civil war and Henry David Thoreau's refusal to pay war taxes. Nonviolent civil disobedience was a critical factor in gaining women the right to vote in the United States, as well.

The U.S. labor movement has also used nonviolence with striking effectiveness in a number of instances, such as the Industrial Workers of the World (IVVW) free speech confrontations, the Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) sit-down strikes from 1935-1937 in auto plants, and the UFW grape and lettuce boycotts.
Using mass nonviolent action, the civil rights movement changed the face of the South. The Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) initiated modem nonviolent action for civil rights with sit-ins and a freedom ride in the 1940s. The successful Montgomery bus boycott electrified the nation. Then, the early 1960s exploded with nonviolent actions: sit-ins at lunch counters and other facilities, organized by the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC); Freedom Rides to the South organized by CORE; the nonviolent battles against segregation in Birmingham, Alabama, by the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC); and the 1963 March on Washington, which drew 250,000 participants.
Opponents of the Vietnam War employed the use of draft card burnings, draft file destruction, mass demonstrations (such as the 500,000 who turned out in 1969 in Washington, D.C.), sit-ins, blocking induction centers, draft and tax resistance, and the historic 1971 May Day traffic blocking in Washington, D.C. in which 13,000 people were arrested.

Since the mid-70s, we have seen increasing nonviolent activity against the nuclear arms race and nuclear power industry. Nonviolent civil disobedience actions have taken place at dozens of nuclear weapons research installations, storage areas, missile silos, test sites, military bases, corporate and government offices and nuclear power plants. In the late 1970s mass civil disobedience actions took place at nuclear power plants from Seabrook, New Hampshire to the Diablo Canyon reactor in California and most states in between in this country and in other countries around the world. In 1982, 1750 people were arrested at the U.N. missions of the five major nuclear powers. Mass actions took place at the Livermore Laboratories in California and SAC bases in the Midwest. In the late 80s a series of actions took place at the Nevada test site. International disarmament actions changed world opinion about nuclear weapons."

Read more at Nonviolence
 
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I know there are many individual OWS movements around the country, but in general, do you believe that the OWS movement represents the grievances, complaints, & desires of the 99% of the USA?

Keep in mind, the 99% means those folks in the USA who make less than $379,000 a year.

I still have no idea what all the fuss is about...like, at all.

Everything was going along just fine, then all of a sudden one day there were stories of thousands of people protesting nothing coherent, meaningless platitudes which read like horoscopes and can mean anything the reader wants them to mean were chanted, and the news media, always keen to talk about nothing important, would speak of nothing else.
 
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An Anarchist member group of OWS does not equate to OWS as being anarchist. Anarchist, do not utilize non-violent civil disobedience as OWS has done nationwide.

Their stated goal is economic justice, not anarchy, but nice try.
You do not seem to understand the significance of the New York General Assembly. Do you even understand what the Occupy General Assembly is? The General Assembly as used by all of the Occupations is a model of a system which is Anarchy. Why do you think the Occupy movement is leaderless?

But dont take my word for it. Listen to the Occupiers themselves Demystifying Anarchism at Occupy | Anarchist news dot org

Document aimed at clearing the media-driven confusion around anarchism / violence / disorder. A product of the Bay Area Anarchist General Assembly on 11/06/2011. We've been passing this flier out, with the attached cartoon image on the back at every GA this week, to a positive response. Provided here on anarchistnews.org for anyone facing similar misconceptions in their towns. Feel free to edit and add, after all it was hastily put together.
Long live the Oakland Commune!


DEMYSTIFYING ANARCHISM

After the events of November 2nd and 3rd we have seen the government, the corporate media, and even some of our comrades within the Occupy Oakland camp make "anarchists" the scapegoats for actions they disagree with, and we've heard that “anarchists” take advantage of the Occupy movement without “being a part of it.” However, many essential aspects of the Occupy movement are based on anarchist principles and build upon years of anarchist organizing.

To clear up any confusion, we, various individuals who participate in the anarchist community, offer this explanation of anarchist principles to prevent confusion and ignorance from defining us and dividing the solidarity of our Occupy Oakland camp.

Anarchism is a revolutionary political philosophy, theory, and way of living that strives toward a more free and equal society without government, authority, domination, capitalism, or oppression. Key to the anarchist analysis is its unflinching criticism of authority, or of some people holding established power over others. The word anarchy comes from the Greek words, αν (an), αρχη (arkhe), and means without authority or government. Anarchism considers government in any form (from false democracy to state communism) unnecessary, harmful, and undesirable―we advocate for the self-management of society and reject the State form. The General Assemblies and committees within Occupy are experiments in this kind of self-management. But anarchism has always been an idea open to change, transforming itself in theory and practice as it grows.

From a philosophy of freedom and equality, almost all anarchists extend the analysis against government authority to reject oppression, exploitation or any situation where some people hold established power over others. As such, anarchists stand against economic forms of domination like capitalism, private property, and any system that places profits over people. It follows that anarchists oppose interpersonal oppression such as racism, sexism, ageism, and homophobia. In accordance with these values, anarchists strive to build personal relationships free of domination. Thus, anarchists emphasize self-governance, organize without leaders, and embrace a diversity of opinions and actions.


In fact, several Occupy Oakland GA resolutions are based on anarchist ideas and actions, including:
• The rejection of government endorsements and political parties.
• The agreement to treat every GA speaker equally with no special privileges.
• The agreement to not allow police within the encampment.
• Solidarity with all striking workers and students.

We are not free until we determine our own lives. Instead of accepting the way things are now, anarchism stands for a horizontal society where every human enjoys the most freedom and relative equality possible―a society where people stand together and share resources from each according to ability, to each according to need.

The word “anarchy” is often misused in the place of “violence”, “chaos” or “disorder” by both the ignorant and those interested in distorting the truth. Historically, social ideas like anarchism have inspired people to action of many types, from tactics such as property damage, to strategies like self-education and even armed revolutionary self-defense. However, violence is not part of the definition of what it is to be an anarchist, and it is important to be able to separate the two.

The flip side of this flyer illustrates how many anarchist principles are put into action throughout Occupy Oakland. For more info, we suggest you do your own research. Searching anarchism on wikipedia might be a good starting point, it contains many useful links. We also encourage conversation with various folks who identify as anarchists at the occupation and elsewhere.

cute occupy cartoon demystifying anarchism at occupy oakland : Indybay
Be sure to look at this cartoon at the last link.

I know it must be hard to accept that the Occupy movement is a radical Anarchist movement but all of the facts are easy to find. But if you want to refuse to see the obvious what can I do?


BTW on the 12th of December Occupy Oakland General Assembly voted ( they didnt really vote but anyways) for a Coordinated West Coast Port Shutdown.

From Occupy Oakland
Proposal for a Coordinated West Coast Port Shutdown, Passed With Unanimous Consensus by vote of the Occupy Oakland General Assembly 11/18/2012:

In response to coordinated attacks on the occupations and attacks on workers across the nation:
Read the rest of their plan at the link. "Since the EGT has disregarded this message, and continues to attack the Longshoremen at Longview, we will now shut down ports along the entire West Coast." DO you think that Liberals are planning to shut down the entire west coast area ports? I am pretty sure that the Conservatives will try to blame Liberals for it especially when it is right before Christmas. Will you still support and claim that the Occupy movement is non-violent Liberal later when those pesky founders of your movement start upping the anti?
 
I still have no idea what all the fuss is about...like, at all.

Everything was going along just fine, then all of a sudden one day there were stories of thousands of people protesting nothing coherent, meaningless platitudes which read like horoscopes and can mean anything the reader wants them to mean were chanted, and the news media, always keen to talk about nothing important, would speak of nothing else.

Probably the quickest way for you to get caught up is to watch the award winning documentary, Inside Job. It is available on Netflix, and a number of free online sites.
 
Probably the quickest way for you to get caught up is to watch the award winning documentary, Inside Job. It is available on Netflix, and a number of free online sites.

Sorry, I'm busy having a life.
 
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