View Poll Results: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

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  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    24 18.32%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    30 22.90%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    23 17.56%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    54 41.22%
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Thread: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  1. #461
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    They really frighten you, don't they?
    If by frighten you mean that I am concerned that a group of people want to start a uprising in this country then sure why not?

    All sarcasm aside do you think I am not warranted in being concerned about a movement that visually is Leftist? Is it not my liberty to raise my concerns about a movement that wishes to enact massive change upon the country of my birth? You said yourself that OWS wants us to have this conversation. Why than do you try to deny everything that I show you? It is not like I have not shown my sources which in every case has been from sites officiated or in support collectively for OWS. I think that you are the one that needs to "wake up". and see what is so clearly in front of you.

    You seem to be asserting that OWS is an Liberal movement with a small radical Anarchist to Communist element. Why is that element there and why is their voice so loud among your Liberal movement? Why do you think that so many people see OWS as an mainly Leftist movement and not a non-partisanship peoples movement? Why is it that only Left leaning people see OWS as not a Left leaning movement and overwhelming the Right sees it as a Leftist movement? Is that the conversation that OWS was after?

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    "Conservatives need to wake up" Tell them that not me, as I have told you I am not an Conservative.
    You have ultra conservative ideals, whether you call yourself a conservative or not.

    BTW dont be so simply minded I did not relate Nazism with OWS. I only made the example that forced social evolution isnt always a good thing.
    What forced social evolution??? You sure do have a funny way of defining enlightenment.
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    They really frighten you, don't they?
    I am pretty sure they don't have nor will reach a critical mass to influence the course of history. But yeah, as a student of history I would be worried if a group of self-righteous youth, aging hipsters and dedicated extremists did.

    You don't have to go far back in time to see the erosion of freedom and human suffering which resulting from such movements. This, of course, all on the assumed premise that they understand what is good for us. That would scare me.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    If by frighten you mean that I am concerned that a group of people want to start a uprising in this country then sure why not?

    All sarcasm aside do you think I am not warranted in being concerned about a movement that visually is Leftist?
    You call the OWS movement Leftists, and have the balls to say you are not conservative????


    Is it not my liberty to raise my concerns about a movement that wishes to enact massive change upon the country of my birth? You said yourself that OWS wants us to have this conversation. Why than do you try to deny everything that I show you?
    It is not like I have not shown my sources which in every case has been from sites officiated or in support collectively for OWS. I think that you are the one that needs to "wake up". and see what is so clearly in front of you.
    You have exposed nothing but your own paranoid delusions.


    You seem to be asserting that OWS is an Liberal movement with a small radical Anarchist to Communist element. Why is that element there and why is their voice so loud among your Liberal movement? Why do you think that so many people see OWS as an mainly Leftist movement and not a non-partisanship peoples movement? Why is it that only Left leaning people see OWS as not a Left leaning movement and overwhelming the Right sees it as a Leftist movement? Is that the conversation that OWS was after?
    They are a confluence of many groups that make up the Occupy protesters across the country, all with the cause of increasing public debate about the historic wealth disparity in this country. There are some anarchists, Veterans, Seniors, college students, the unemployed, the unions, in other words a wide cross section of Americans. Most people don't see it as Leftist. Only ultra conservatives like yourself see it as Leftists. As a matter of fact, 4 times as many people approve of the OWS than approve of the Congress voted in 2010!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    I am pretty sure they don't have nor will reach a critical mass to influence the course of history. But yeah, as a student of history I would be worried if a group of self-righteous youth, aging hipsters and dedicated extremists did.

    You don't have to go far back in time to see the erosion of freedom and human suffering which resulting from such movements. This, of course, all on the assumed premise that they understand what is good for us. That would scare me.

    What was the erosion of freedom and human suffering caused by the Vietnam War protest and the Civil Rights Movement, the other two big mass non-violent protests in our past???
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What was the erosion of freedom and human suffering caused by the Vietnam War protest and the Civil Rights Movement, the other two big mass non-violent protests in our past???
    These protesters, by and large, are not protesting the lack of civil rights or wars. They are envisioning a new world order based on Marxist principles. While some of the buzzwords have been altered and are now progressive, income inequality, fairness and so on, the goals of enforcing radical socioeconomic changes have not.

    But higher levels of education, history and freer and more accessible media than in the early to late 20th century will hopefully minimize the populist and self-righteous appeal of what could be a dangerous movement. Repackaged crap is still crap.

  7. #467
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You have ultra conservative ideals, whether you call yourself a conservative or not.



    What forced social evolution??? You sure do have a funny way of defining enlightenment.
    Now you are my end all judge? Please tell me what makes my views ultra Conservative? I asked you that before and all I heard were crickets. All I have asserted is that OWS is an Leftist movement. I did not share any Conservative ideals. Why is it that I must be a Conservative? Is it because I do not flock to OWS like some love sick child? Sorry I dont have blind faith and am able to see just who and what OWs is. I cant help it that you cannot. And in your denial of the obvious must accuse me of being the typical foe of your ideology. Guess what there are other people with different beliefs than the mundane Liberal vs Conservative paradigm.

    The point of an Representative Democracy is to have equality among ideals. Meanwhile the infighting between your half and your opposing half is destroying this great nation. And I refuse to be a part of that insane spiral of irrationality. So please stop playing childish games and trying to pigeon hole me into your perception of the world. I make my own opinions your online opinion of my inner self does not matter.

    Forced social evolution is when one side wants to dictate what is socially acceptable to another side or in this case everyone else. I already have told you that I agree that regulations and laws are necessary to maintain an civilized world. But dont take that as endorsement for an state ran economy. Although I suspect it really does not matter to you what I actually say or believe, you have already judged me and thrown away your key to reason.
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 12-11-11 at 04:14 AM.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You call the OWS movement Leftists, and have the balls to say you are not conservative????




    You have exposed nothing but your own paranoid delusions.




    They are a confluence of many groups that make up the Occupy protesters across the country, all with the cause of increasing public debate about the historic wealth disparity in this country. There are some anarchists, Veterans, Seniors, college students, the unemployed, the unions, in other words a wide cross section of Americans. Most people don't see it as Leftist. Only ultra conservatives like yourself see it as Leftists. As a matter of fact, 4 times as many people approve of the OWS than approve of the Congress voted in 2010!
    So anybody who calls OWS leftists are conservatives? Am I a conservative?
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You call the OWS movement Leftists, and have the balls to say you are not conservative????




    You have exposed nothing but your own paranoid delusions.




    They are a confluence of many groups that make up the Occupy protesters across the country, all with the cause of increasing public debate about the historic wealth disparity in this country. There are some anarchists, Veterans, Seniors, college students, the unemployed, the unions, in other words a wide cross section of Americans. Most people don't see it as Leftist. Only ultra conservatives like yourself see it as Leftists. As a matter of fact, 4 times as many people approve of the OWS than approve of the Congress voted in 2010!
    Look at the poll at DP
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

  10. #470
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You call the OWS movement Leftists, and have the balls to say you are not conservative????

    You have exposed nothing but your own paranoid delusions.

    They are a confluence of many groups that make up the Occupy protesters across the country, all with the cause of increasing public debate about the historic wealth disparity in this country. There are some anarchists, Veterans, Seniors, college students, the unemployed, the unions, in other words a wide cross section of Americans. Most people don't see it as Leftist. Only ultra conservatives like yourself see it as Leftists.
    What you have presented is an Non Sequitur. Specifically the type of Non Sequitur is Undistributed Middle.
    Undistributed Middle

    A syllogistic fallacy where the middle term (the term that appears in both premises) is not distributed (quantified on the left hand side of the logical expression) in either premise in which it occurs.
    Abstractly, the fallacy looks like:
    All A are C
    All B are C
    Therefore, all A are B
    In plain English, it means an argument that goes like this:
    All communists favor regulation
    All democrats favor regulation
    Therefore, all democrats are communists
    Or:
    All dogs are mortal
    Socrates is mortal
    Therefore, Socrates is a dog Undistributed Middle


    As a matter of fact, 4 times as many people approve of the OWS than approve of the Congress voted in 2010!
    That attempt of persuasion simply will not work with me. SO stop trying it. lol


    Fallacy: Appeal to Popularity

    The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:

    Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
    Therefore X is true.
    The basic idea is that a claim is accepted as being true simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the claim. More formally, the fact that most people have favorable emotions associated with the claim is substituted in place of actual evidence for the claim. A person falls prey to this fallacy if he accepts a claim as being true simply because most other people approve of the claim.

    It is clearly fallacious to accept the approval of the majority as evidence for a claim. For example, suppose that a skilled speaker managed to get most people to absolutely love the claim that 1+1=3. It would still not be rational to accept this claim simply because most people approved of it. After all, mere approval is no substitute for a mathematical proof. At one time people approved of claims such as "the world is flat", "humans cannot survive at speeds greater than 25 miles per hour", "the sun revolves around the earth" but all these claims turned out to be false.

    This sort of "reasoning" is quite common and can be quite an effective persusasive device. Since most humans tend to conform with the views of the majority, convincing a person that the majority approves of a claim is often an effective way to get him to accept it. Advertisers often use this tactic when they attempt to sell products by claiming that everyone uses and loves their products. In such cases they hope that people will accept the (purported) approval of others as a good reason to buy the product.

    This fallacy is vaguely similar to such fallacies as Appeal to Belief and Appeal to Common Practice. However, in the case of an Ad Populum the appeal is to the fact that most people approve of a claim. In the case of an Appeal to Belief, the appeal is to the fact that most people believe a claim. In the case of an Appeal to Common Practice, the appeal is to the fact that many people take the action in question.

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