View Poll Results: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

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  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    24 18.32%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    30 22.90%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    23 17.56%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    54 41.22%
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Thread: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll
    Most of the other countries with mass protests are protesting actual dictators and authoritarian regimes. They have become violent because the Government directly or indirectly killed many protesters. Comparing OWS to such international situations is dangerous for the occupy movement, since those other examples have or were or did over through their Government.
    The Civil Rights protests and all other American protests were significantly more violent than this one.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    Yes. I am not sure whether or not Dr. King was a socialist, though.
    So on what would MLK, Jr. agree with Cornel West?


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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Most of the other countries with mass protests are protesting actual dictators and authoritarian regimes. They have become violent because the Government directly or indirectly killed many protesters. Comparing OWS to such international situations is dangerous for the occupy movement, since those other examples have or were or did over through their Government.

    Are you asserting then that the purpose of OWS is to overthrow the US Government? I assume that you are not, but do you see what I mean?
    The purpose of the Civil Rights Movement was not to overthrow the US Government, The Vietnam War protest was not to overthrow the US Government. Likewise, it is not the purpose of the Occupy protest around the country to overthrow the US Government. All three sought to generate, through non-violent civil disobedience, the public debate necessary to bring about social evolution.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    So on what would MLK, Jr. agree with Cornel West?
    Although their ideologies may have been different, both of them would have the same views on many issues, with both of them being center-leftists. The Vietnam War, neoliberalism, corporate influence on government, racial issues, etc. are things that these two would agree upon. Both of their ideologies have the same basic drive, which happens to be the same drive as mine, more or less. This is why I admire them both.

    Just because two people differ in ideology, it does not mean that they would differ in standpoints on political issues. This is why the democratic socialists and social democrats stand right beside each other on political issues, despite advocating entirely different forms of government in some cases.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The purpose of the Civil Rights Movement was not to overthrow the US Government, The Vietnam War protest was not to overthrow the US Government. Likewise, it is not the purpose of the Occupy protest around the country to overthrow the US Government. All three sought to generate, through non-violent civil disobedience, the public debate necessary to bring about social evolution.
    So then why were you comparing (as most of the occupiers do) to movements in other countries that their goal is to overthrow their Governments? Youn cant have it both ways, either you are inspired by Arab spring or you are not.

    Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

    This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society. Occupy Wall Street | NYC Protest for World Revolution
    "revolutionary Arab Spring tactic" does not imply reforms, it implies revolution as in what Egypt is doing. Does OWS want the military to assume power? After all that is what happened in Egypt and that is what OWS claims they are involved in an Arab spring. Look at how the Governments responded in the Arab spring countries, With live rounds not rubber bullets or pepper spray. Every US citizen would be rioting in the streets if our Government started shooting protesters with real bullets.

    Social evolution isnt always a good thing. Take a look at pre ww2 Germany. Hitler and the Nazis worked hard to "bring about social evolution". What the occupy movement is, is an caste rigidly determined to be the dominate moral leader of America. OWS dogmatically ignores the purpose of Representative Democracy and wants no other alternative than their vision of society. Even their website address promotes world revolution. While admitting "We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends"

    What are Americans to think about the Occupy movement? See why I said relating your movement to Arab spring is dangerous? Well only dangerous if you actually want to stop corruption. IMHO liberals would be wise to start their own movement and distance themselves from OWS. Arab Spring is not something that most Americans would want in the US. At least not the actual Arab spring that happened in the Arab countries.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll
    "revolutionary Arab Spring tactic" does not imply reforms, it implies revolution as in what Egypt is doing. Does OWS want the military to assume power? After all that is what happened in Egypt and that is what OWS claims they are involved in an Arab spring. Look at how the Governments responded in the Arab spring countries, With live rounds not rubber bullets or pepper spray. Every US citizen would be rioting in the streets if our Government started shooting protesters with real bullets. [...]
    By 'revolutionary' they were describing the effectiveness of the tactic, not the way in which it was meant to be used for #OWS. They were not implying a revolution. In all honesty though, some of the more radical protestors want a revolution. These people are usually the democratic socialists leftward. All others simply want reform, and many of the more extreme leftists still do not want a revolution.
    Last edited by JustinS; 12-11-11 at 01:10 AM.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    d
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    By 'revolutionary' they were describing the effectiveness of the tactic, not the way in which it was meant to be used for #OWS. They were not implying a revolution. In all honesty though, some of the more radical protestors want a revolution. These people are usually the democratic socialists leftward. All others simply want reform, and many of the more extreme leftists still do not want a revolution. A revolution is in no way the intended outcome for #OWS.
    Yes I know revolution is the fall back plan. Arab spring can be described as wide spread uprisings that demanded new governments. OWS directly asserts it is modeling that tactic.

    Please do not act as if I have not done my homework. Word games do not fool me.

    "Now is the time!" This is a common phrase thrown around by occupiers, that has a very specific meaning. I realize that there are a lot of Liberals that support OWS. Except for special occasions the people at the protests day in and day out are not Liberals. The actual protesters the ones keeping the protests going are overwhelmingly farther Left that the run of the mill average Liberal. The core of OWS is not Liberal they are Leftists that would like to convince Americans to give up on America. And they want us to get out on the streets and oust all of the politicians out of office.
    This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society. Occupy Wall Street | NYC Protest for World Revolution
    How is that demand any different than what happened and is happening in the countries of Arab spring? OWS wants Americans to oust the politicians. That is fact and it came straight from the actual protesters at OWS. There is no way to say that they did not mean it that way.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    So then why were you comparing (as most of the occupiers do) to movements in other countries that their goal is to overthrow their Governments? Youn cant have it both ways, either you are inspired by Arab spring or you are not.



    "revolutionary Arab Spring tactic" does not imply reforms, it implies revolution as in what Egypt is doing. Does OWS want the military to assume power? After all that is what happened in Egypt and that is what OWS claims they are involved in an Arab spring. Look at how the Governments responded in the Arab spring countries, With live rounds not rubber bullets or pepper spray. Every US citizen would be rioting in the streets if our Government started shooting protesters with real bullets.

    Social evolution isnt always a good thing. Take a look at pre ww2 Germany. Hitler and the Nazis worked hard to "bring about social evolution". What the occupy movement is, is an caste rigidly determined to be the dominate moral leader of America. OWS dogmatically ignores the purpose of Representative Democracy and wants no other alternative than their vision of society. Even their website address promotes world revolution. While admitting "We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends"

    What are Americans to think about the Occupy movement? See why I said relating your movement to Arab spring is dangerous? Well only dangerous if you actually want to stop corruption. IMHO liberals would be wise to start their own movement and distance themselves from OWS. Arab Spring is not something that most Americans would want in the US. At least not the actual Arab spring that happened in the Arab countries.


    LOL! You are a hoot!!! You talk of little else but OWS protesters around the country and try to convince people they are having no effect on public debate!


    Nazi Germany???? We are talking tax rates and bank regulations proposed that are not even as progressive as during the 1940's thru the 1970's in the US. Conservatives need to wake up to the fact that a majority of the country supports eliminating the tax cuts for the rich and re-regulating the banks.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    d

    Yes I know revolution is the fall back plan. Arab spring can be described as wide spread uprisings that demanded new governments. OWS directly asserts it is modeling that tactic.

    Please do not act as if I have not done my homework. Word games do not fool me.

    "Now is the time!" This is a common phrase thrown around by occupiers, that has a very specific meaning. I realize that there are a lot of Liberals that support OWS. Except for special occasions the people at the protests day in and day out are not Liberals. The actual protesters the ones keeping the protests going are overwhelmingly farther Left that the run of the mill average Liberal. The core of OWS is not Liberal they are Leftists that would like to convince Americans to give up on America. And they want us to get out on the streets and oust all of the politicians out of office.

    How is that demand any different than what happened and is happening in the countries of Arab spring? OWS wants Americans to oust the politicians. That is fact and it came straight from the actual protesters at OWS. There is no way to say that they did not mean it that way.

    They really frighten you, don't they?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    LOL! You are a hoot!!! You talk of little else but OWS protesters around the country and try to convince people they are having no effect on public debate!


    Nazi Germany???? We are talking tax rates and bank regulations proposed that are not even as progressive as during the 1940's thru the 1970's in the US. Conservatives need to wake up to the fact that a majority of the country supports eliminating the tax cuts for the rich and re-regulating the banks.
    "Conservatives need to wake up" Tell them that not me, as I have told you I am not an Conservative.

    BTW dont be so simply minded I did not relate Nazism with OWS. I only made the example that forced social evolution isnt always a good thing.

    A political movement is what its core is. And the core of OWS is not Liberal. Tax rates and bank regulations are only part of what OWS is talking about. How many times do I need to post a link toi the OWS declaration before you actually read it?
    Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

    This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on September 29, 2011
    Translations: French, Slovak, Spanish, German, Italian, Arabic, Portuguese [all translations »]
    As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

    As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

    They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
    They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
    They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
    They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
    They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
    They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
    They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
    They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
    They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
    They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
    They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
    They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
    They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
    They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
    They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
    They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
    They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
    They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
    They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
    They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
    They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
    They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
    They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
    To the people of the world,

    We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

    Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

    To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

    Join us and make your voices heard!

    *These grievances are not all-inclusive
    About Us | OccupyWallSt.org About
    OccupyWallSt.org is the unofficial de facto online resource for the growing occupation movement happening on Wall Street and around the world. We're an affinity group committed to doing technical support work for resistance movements. We're not a subcommittee of the NYCGA nor affiliated with Adbusters, anonymous or any other organization.

    Occupy Wall Street is a people-powered movement that began on September 17, 2011 in Liberty Square in Manhattan’s Financial District, and has spread to over 100 cities in the United States and actions in over 1,500 cities globally. #ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to fight back against the richest 1% of people that are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.

    The occupations around the world are being organized using a non-binding consensus based collective decision making tool known as a "people's assembly". To learn more about how to use this process to organize your local community to fight back against social injustice, please read this quick guide on group dynamics in people's assemblies.

    Solidarity Forever!

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