View Poll Results: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

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  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    24 18.32%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    30 22.90%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    23 17.56%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    54 41.22%
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Thread: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  1. #261
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I absolutely speak for the 99%. Just as you speak for the 1%, (well at least the more greedy amongst them judging by your posts).
    Is it in your interest for the government to go into bankruptcy?

    Is it in your interest for the government to act constitutionally?

    Would it be in your interest for the govenment to clean up the tax code and get rid of loopholes?

    Is it in your interest to get rid of government waste?

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Believe whatever you like, if you think returning to the tax rates and regulations of the 1950's, is anti-capitalism, knock yourself out.
    Returning to the tax rates and regulations of the 1950's is Regressive, not at all Progressive. many things in the world have changed since the 50's one would have to come up with something new to address all of the dynamics of an modern economy. Economically and socially it would be impossible to apply the tax rates and regulations to todays reality. Even if you started a new country those outdated Progressive concepts would not work today.

    Maybe that is why Progressives are unable to make any progress, they are not progressive thinkers but rather regressives stuck on the policies of FDR rather than thinking on their own.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    Returning to the tax rates and regulations of the 1950's is Regressive, not at all Progressive. many things in the world have changed since the 50's one would have to come up with something new to address all of the dynamics of an modern economy. Economically and socially it would be impossible to apply the tax rates and regulations to todays reality. Even if you started a new country those outdated Progressive concepts would not work today.

    Maybe that is why Progressives are unable to make any progress, they are not progressive thinkers but rather regressives stuck on the policies of FDR rather than thinking on their own.
    I am not sure what is going to happen but something must. I agree that it may indeed be something very new. However both the UK and the US need also to get back to being meritocratic societies which offer equality of opportunity and have social mobility. That is social justice. Do you not believe in that? These are the things which we were working for in the 50's and leaving them behind and allowing the rich to become massively more rich and powerful while keeping society united through perpetual war has had it's time. The young are coming out just like they did in the 60's and this is going to have an effect just like it did then. I believe that a lot of the problem comes from the fact that people have simply been brainwashed, particularly since 2011. Have you read Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power Are you OK with that? Are you OK about living in an increasingly unequal society with more and more crime and perpetual war?

    I have for a long time regretted not having studied economics but am getting started now. Have a look at this On Public Funding of Colleges and Towards a General Theory of Public Options. | Rortybomb. Check out the link in it The Slack Wire: Public Options: The General Case - original story I was reading this Pepper spray nation - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

    In just the same way as the Unions apparently were not working in the late '70's the neo liberal way is coming to it's end because it has been found to be unworkable and something else is coming in it's place. Exactly what we do not know. My wish would be that we regain our feeling of community - which we can get from caring rather than perpetual war, that we get back our feeling of social conscience and that we start to work for a society which offers an equal chance for everyone, valuing again the quality of life rather than the fatness of the pay check. My daughter trained to be a dancer and teaches dance at a professional dance college. She told me she chose dance because she loved it, not for money but that if she had not loved it, she would have gone after whatever it was that made the most money. I hope the world we build will have a lot more quality in people's lives so that they can enjoy their work rather than needing to feel the relief of the addiction of buy, buy, buy.


    Like it or not the world is changing. The OWS with all it's imperfections and beauty also, is just getting talking about where we can go.

    it may be many other ways, I'm tempted to hope OWS is going to stop us going down the far right nazi type route I thought we were headed for.

    Peace and good night
    Last edited by alexa; 11-26-11 at 08:29 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I am not sure what is going to happen but something must. I agree that it may indeed be something very new. However both the UK and the US need also to get back to being meritocratic societies which offer equality of opportunity and have social mobility. That is social justice. Do you not believe in that?
    I do not really believe that today's society is really so unequal that something drastic must be done. I am friends with a lot of elderly people that see today as much better in terms of opportunity than when they were young. Even in my life I know that it is easier to obtain wealth now than it was during my youth. No things are not perfect by any means but that is the nature of the world. We have to keep improving the state of things otherwise we end up with stagnation. Hence why there are changes to laws, policies, and regulations through out the years.

    Ironically while you are calling our community a community based on war as the adhesion in some romantic conspiracy, the basis of your argument is conflict and blame. Is there inequality in our society? Yes. Is the Left the only people capable of providing a solution? No, this country is not just the Left but the Right and the Left and everything in between and beyond. The solutions come from all of us not just one section of society. We are an Representative Democracy so that all sections of our population has a voice. OWS in contrast is a mob rules model of Democracy they will not provide solutions only distractions.

    People who choose the career that makes the most money are not evil greedy people, they are smart. Some people dont really care what career that they are in. That is just how some people are. It does not make them bad people. It is logical that is you sell your time to someone else that wanting to be rewarded more for your time makes more sense than less. We only live for a short time and time is worth a premium to humans. No one should be made to feel guilty for insisting that their time is worth X amount to them.

    I often wonder if more compensation for ones time is wrong, then are you suggesting that people are making too much? Who decides what desires and what goals are morally corrupted? I have known people that worked their entire 80 years of life at low paying jobs and not once did they complain in their old age. They were happy even during the Great Depression. Life is what you make of it. If you see the world as vile that is the world that you live in. Take for example Anti-corporatists everyday is hell since Corporations are all around us. When we see a road with stores they see an evil empire out to screw them in every aspect of their lives. Certainly that existence must be hell. meanwhile everyday people (those that the anti-corporatists assume are duped or whatever) live happy productive lives free from feeling repressed. They enjoy their liberties and freedoms in America but dont think that they do not have concerns. Or are not actively fighting for those liberties and freedoms that they enjoy so much. It is a matter of perception.

    it may be many other ways, I'm tempted to hope OWS is going to stop us going down the far right nazi type route I thought we were headed for.
    Perceptions are a funny thing. While you were fearing a slide to the far Right others see it as a slide to the far Left. Obviously someone is wrong.
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 11-27-11 at 03:13 AM.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    I would like to point out that a large amount of the protestors are not radical. Many of them are not anti-capitalist; they are simply opposed to the greed of many corporations. In today's society, 'not neoliberal' seems to translate to 'radical', when neoliberalism itself is radical.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    I would like to point out that a large amount of the protestors are not radical. Many of them are not anti-capitalist; they are simply opposed to the greed of many corporations. In today's society, 'not neoliberal' seems to translate to 'radical', when neoliberalism itself is radical.
    Well of course many are not Anti-Capitalists. But I disagree that people are protesting just because they think some Corporations are greedy. There are some definitive ideological positions being aired regularly at the protests that extends a great deal farther then the single concept of greedy Corporations. We must accept the signs at the protests as the words of the supporters, if not than it would be pointless for protesters to print signs and carry them. And from those signs one could easily assert that OWS is radical in nature.

  7. #267
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    Returning to the tax rates and regulations of the 1950's is Regressive, not at all Progressive.
    Look up the definition of both regressive and progressive tax rates, and compare them.

    Now look up the Glass Steagall Act, and see why its repeal in 1999 led to banks too big to fail.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    I would like to point out that a large amount of the protestors are not radical. Many of them are not anti-capitalist; they are simply opposed to the greed of many corporations. In today's society, 'not neoliberal' seems to translate to 'radical', when neoliberalism itself is radical.
    I see the majority of them as radical. Many of them are indeed anti-capitalist, as we can see by many of their signs that view capitalism as the enemy. Furthermore, one can deduce meaning by the addition of so many socialist/communist groups who have joined the movement. Though I can sympathize with some of the OWS's meaning, don't try to obscure things by not saying what they are, JustinS. When you try to cover what they are people like me who are a bit more central and interested in their cause get turned off because we don't like the coat of obscurity.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I see the majority of them as radical. Many of them are indeed anti-capitalist, as we can see by many of their signs that view capitalism as the enemy. Furthermore, one can deduce meaning by the addition of so many socialist/communist groups who have joined the movement. Though I can sympathize with some of the OWS's meaning, don't try to obscure things by not saying what they are, JustinS. When you try to cover what they are people like me who are a bit more central and interested in their cause get turned off because we don't like the coat of obscurity.
    Wake-did you read about the Glass-Steagall Act? That is one of the grievances of OWS, how this was a great set of regulations and was gotten rid of by Carter, Reagan, Bush, & Clinton.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Wake-did you read about the Glass-Steagall Act? That is one of the grievances of OWS, how this was a great set of regulations and was gotten rid of by Carter, Reagan, Bush, & Clinton.
    I have the link saved, and I'll be adding it to my forum to be read/saved soon. But yeah, thanks for that.

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