View Poll Results: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

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  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    24 18.32%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    30 22.90%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    23 17.56%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    54 41.22%
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Thread: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  1. #191
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    The poll results prove otherwise.
    What poll???
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you are already convinced the super rich are the ones most looking out for your interests, rather than their bottom line, there is nothing I can say to make you think otherwise.
    You see, that's not listening.

    I never said/implied the bolded part.

    You're trying to sell me an idea, so show me some good salesmanship and convince me.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I never said/implied the bolded part.
    Than you are confused about what the OWS protest is about. The OWS protest is about building the political will to re-regulate the 1% so there will once again be a more even playing field for the 99%.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #194
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Than you are confused about what the OWS protest is about. The OWS protest is about building the political will to re-regulate the 1% so there will once again be a more even playing field for the 99%.
    False dichotomy. It's not that you either support OWS or think the 1% has your best interests at heart. I don't support OWS because I think their proposed answers are flawed, I think they have the wrong target, and I don't think it's evil for the 1% to have a lot of money. I certainly don't believe that it's the government's job to redistribute that money. I can not support either group.
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Than you are confused about what the OWS protest is about. The OWS protest is about building the political will to re-regulate the 1% so there will once again be a more even playing field for the 99%.
    Actually, you are the one who may be confused. I have an understanding of what the OWS is about. That fact known, there is nothing about me being confused. You are confused when you said this: "If you are already convinced the super rich are the ones most looking out for your interests, rather than their bottom line." You see, I never said I was convinced that the super rich are looking out for my best interests. They undoubtedly don't, because humans are typically selfish and like luxury. HOWEVER, laziness and irresponsibility, as well as lack of ambition and will, are other negative aspects that humans have. You see, those same businessmen as a whole work, and trade, and compete, in order to draw in more jobs and create ever better technology.

    I cannot look at the bad without looking at the good. We need corporations to fuel our economy. As with many things in life, there are both positives and negatives. You may not like the wealthy/selfish businessman because he's wealthy and arrogant, but you shouldn't discount the possibility that what he's doing might be helping our economy.

    I may not like capitalism, but I also realize how bad socialism is, too. We either have freedom and people who live freely and better than others, or we bring in government regulation, which eventually leads to ever increasing regulation. I understand how valuable it is to be individualistic, as in wanting to improve one's self under capitalism. Then again, I understand how people can be so completely screwed under capitalism, as in me losing my insurance because the right keeps cutting benefits that people need. You see, there are poisons on both sides. Under a more socialistic form of healthcare, it can take hours to get treatment. I can play ping-pong with you back and foward on the pros and cons of each system, but I really don't care right now to go through that laborious process.

    I never said the super rich care for my best interests. Then again, they probably do indirectly by getting trade/competition going. Then again, I don't know of any billionaire that ever came to talk honestly with the poor folk. Then again, I know how horrible it is when government stifles/sequesters competition. It's a merry-go-round of pros and cons, really.

    Oh yeah, even according to who, Catawba? Iirc, you seem as though you've dabbled in talk of class warfare, so it's really interesting how you'd define "even."

    My understanding is that the OWS want to reduce collusion between Washington and Wall Street, but, as the OWS have made it, there's no official list of demands. Hey, what can I say? The OWS haven't really explained their ideas, so it's nobody's fault but theirs when they're met with derision.

  6. #196
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What poll???
    The Polls section usually entails some sort of Poll.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Actually, you are the one who may be confused. I have an understanding of what the OWS is about. That fact known, there is nothing about me being confused. You are confused when you said this: "If you are already convinced the super rich are the ones most looking out for your interests, rather than their bottom line." You see, I never said I was convinced that the super rich are looking out for my best interests. They undoubtedly don't, because humans are typically selfish and like luxury. HOWEVER, laziness and irresponsibility, as well as lack of ambition and will, are other negative aspects that humans have. You see, those same businessmen as a whole work, and trade, and compete, in order to draw in more jobs and create ever better technology.

    I cannot look at the bad without looking at the good. We need corporations to fuel our economy. As with many things in life, there are both positives and negatives. You may not like the wealthy/selfish businessman because he's wealthy and arrogant, but you shouldn't discount the possibility that what he's doing might be helping our economy.

    I may not like capitalism, but I also realize how bad socialism is, too. We either have freedom and people who live freely and better than others, or we bring in government regulation, which eventually leads to ever increasing regulation. I understand how valuable it is to be individualistic, as in wanting to improve one's self under capitalism. Then again, I understand how people can be so completely screwed under capitalism, as in me losing my insurance because the right keeps cutting benefits that people need. You see, there are poisons on both sides. Under a more socialistic form of healthcare, it can take hours to get treatment. I can play ping-pong with you back and foward on the pros and cons of each system, but I really don't care right now to go through that laborious process.

    I never said the super rich care for my best interests. Then again, they probably do indirectly by getting trade/competition going. Then again, I don't know of any billionaire that ever came to talk honestly with the poor folk. Then again, I know how horrible it is when government stifles/sequesters competition. It's a merry-go-round of pros and cons, really.

    Oh yeah, even according to who, Catawba? Iirc, you seem as though you've dabbled in talk of class warfare, so it's really interesting how you'd define "even."

    My understanding is that the OWS want to reduce collusion between Washington and Wall Street, but, as the OWS have made it, there's no official list of demands. Hey, what can I say? The OWS haven't really explained their ideas, so it's nobody's fault but theirs when they're met with derision.
    you do seem to be confused
    you open your post professing to know what OWS is about
    but then you close insisting OWS has not explained their ideas

    possibly, you can appreciate why your statements do not reconcile

    here is something i have found which appears to be representative of the positions of many of the OWS participants. hopefully, it might help clarify things for you:
    Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

    As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
    As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
    They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
    They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
    They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
    They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
    They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
    They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
    They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
    They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
    They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
    They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
    They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
    They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
    They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
    They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
    They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
    They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
    They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
    They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
    They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
    They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
    They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
    To the people of the world,
    We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
    Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
    To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
    Join us and make your voices heard!
    *These grievances are not all-inclusive.
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  8. #198
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Actually, you are the one who may be confused. I have an understanding of what the OWS is about. That fact known, there is nothing about me being confused. You are confused when you said this: "If you are already convinced the super rich are the ones most looking out for your interests, rather than their bottom line." You see, I never said I was convinced that the super rich are looking out for my best interests.
    That is why the OWS represents your interest.


    I cannot look at the bad without looking at the good. We need corporations to fuel our economy. As with many things in life, there are both positives and negatives. You may not like the wealthy/selfish businessman because he's wealthy and arrogant, but you shouldn't discount the possibility that what he's doing might be helping our economy.
    The OWS is not proposing to do away with corporations, just taxing them closer to the rates under our parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.

    I may not like capitalism, but I also realize how bad socialism is, too. We either have freedom and people who live freely and better than others, or we bring in government regulation, which eventually leads to ever increasing regulation. I understand how valuable it is to be individualistic, as in wanting to improve one's self under capitalism. Then again, I understand how people can be so completely screwed under capitalism, as in me losing my insurance because the right keeps cutting benefits that people need. You see, there are poisons on both sides. Under a more socialistic form of healthcare, it can take hours to get treatment. I can play ping-pong with you back and foward on the pros and cons of each system, but I really don't care right now to go through that laborious process.
    OWS is not proposing to do away with capitalism, just re-regulating it as it was under our parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.


    Oh yeah, even according to who, Catawba? Iirc, you seem as though you've dabbled in talk of class warfare, so it's really interesting how you'd define "even."
    Fighting back against a rigged game is hardly class warfare.

    My understanding is that the OWS want to reduce collusion between Washington and Wall Street, but, as the OWS have made it, there's no official list of demands. Hey, what can I say? The OWS haven't really explained their ideas, so it's nobody's fault but theirs when they're met with derision.
    Like I said, you don't understand what the OWS is about. They are not a political party splinter group like the tea party, they are organized simply to inject economic justice into the public debate to build the public will to re-regulate wall street and eliminate the tax breaks for the super rich that are hurting the the economy.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #199
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    False dichotomy. It's not that you either support OWS or think the 1% has your best interests at heart. I don't support OWS because I think their proposed answers are flawed, I think they have the wrong target, and I don't think it's evil for the 1% to have a lot of money. I certainly don't believe that it's the government's job to redistribute that money. I can not support either group.
    I never claimed you supported the 99%, I said they represent your interests, unless you are the 1%. BTW, the OWS also does not believe the 1% is evil, they just understand that unfettered greed by the 1% has not worked well for the 99%.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you do seem to be confused
    you open your post professing to know what OWS is about
    but then you close insisting OWS has not explained their ideas

    possibly, you can appreciate why your statements do not reconcile

    here is something i have found which appears to be representative of the positions of many of the OWS participants. hopefully, it might help clarify things for you:
    You may have failed.

    When I profess I know what the OWS is about, I draw on certain sources to make that claim.

    I used TIME magazine. Oct 31, 2011 edition, in the Briefing Section

    What the Protesters Want:

    In general, they want to reduce collusion between Washington and Wall Street. There's no official list of demands, but here's how some would do it:

    (Then 4 ideas from OWS supporters are explained.
    I used TIME as a source. What is the date of your "Declaration of the Occupation of New York City,' and which leader did it come from?

    Also, if I'm not mistaken...

    ...huh...

    ...you posted a freaking declaration, while I was talking about a list of demands from the OWS. Tell me, is a declaration the exact same thing as a list of demands, Justa?

    You have failed.

    Why have you failed?

    You failed because you said I had no understanding of the OWS when I used TIME MAGAZINE, of all sources, to explain what they believed. Maybe you'd have me use FOX as a source for understanding the OWS, hmm? Furthermore, I was talking about a list of demands from the OWS, and you try to cross me with a list of grievances on a declaration.

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