View Poll Results: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

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  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    24 18.32%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    30 22.90%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    23 17.56%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    54 41.22%
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Thread: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  1. #181
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The point is that they represent your interests.
    Do they, really?

    When you make such a broad claim, you're going to have to convince us.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Well, they are the ones who have tried to represent the 99%. Though, your first sentence is understandable. Prison inmates don't have credibility, unlike disillusioned citizens.

    Interesting. TIMES shows that there were European protesters who showed solidarity with the OWS. Though, I think when it comes to OWS matters, the percentages refer to citizens of America---not the whole world.

    It is true they claim to represent the 99%, and that the 99% are people who make an average yearly income of $54,792. It's also understandable that there are lower class people who would support the high class..

    Right now, I'm checking the arguments of others, as in yours and TIME's.

    Do you think it would be wise to take TIME magazine with a couple shakes of salt?
    I would treat TIME as any other source. Be wary of bias, but don't discount it. If you question the numbers, do additional research. I'm not saying they are wrong in their numbers (though I've seen different ones), just that I don't think those numbers validate the statement of representation.

    I don't think they are horrible people for claiming to speak for others, pick a news outlet, elected official, or a thousand other people. It's common. It irritates me when anyone claims to speak for me without my endorsement. In this particular case, recent polling shows (by interpretation) that many folks agree with me.

    If I was going to mention things that upset me about OWS, this would be low on the list. It's not a huge list but I won't give it right now because it's largely been covered in previous posts.
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The point is that they represent your interests.
    The poll results prove otherwise.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    They represent the portion of the citizenry that agrees with them.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The point is that they represent your interests.
    That statement makes too many assumptions for me to really address. They represent what they believe my interests to be, but so do I and I disagree with them.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    Dividing the population by income is a false flag. It is an attempt to manipulate people to join a movement that has a specific ideology.
    we only hear complaints about the class war when we fight back

    hell, Warren Buffett has advised us that we are being routed

    The 99% ploy is called "Bandwagon appeal"
    when the bandwagon is the 99%
    duh!

    The 'occupy movement' is asking us to jump off a bridge just because they are.
    no bridge jumping going on

    i believe you are confused. it is among the tea party that one should expect to see the lemmings jump without thinking; doing as they have been told

    By trying to make the majority of the 'common folk' hostile towards the 'rich folk'.
    the only parties initiating hostility appear to be law enforcement. OWS has been about passive resistance
    and the reich wing media and those that follow it seem hostile about the OWS ... but that is likely because they don't have the mental firepower to grasp what it is about

    Meanwhile the Occupiers purposely makes the appearance of having no real agenda.
    for you to say that, then you must have proof that they actually do have an agenda that has not been disclosed. share your proof with us ... or are you just making this **** up

    But there are some facts about the Occupy movement: The movement is entirely from the Left.
    that is interesting. how is it you are so certain that there are no participants with a right lean
    Is factional. There is not any agreement among those factions.
    so, this coming together to participate in peaceful protest is by non-aligned groups. but would it not seem that they are aligned if they have come together to participate together in the protest
    your presentation makes no sense. show us your proof about these disharmonious factions

    There is a large amount of far leftists among the General Assemblies.
    now, you already asserted that the OWS participants - ALL of them - are from the left. so aren't you being redundant when you tell us that is the lean of the OWS participants who also serve in the General Assemblies

    The General Assembly mechanism makes all of the decisions for the Occupy movement.
    again, interesting to know
    now share with us the evidence that shows your assertion to be correct
    for me, it is difficult to imagine that every protesting participant is waiting around just waiting to be told what to do. especially when the participants are those protesting to preserve their individual rights as provided by the Constitution
    but i will be opened minded about it and will give you the opportunity to show us that ALL OWS decisions are made by the members of the General Assemblies and that no other participants make individual decisions
    maybe you will also tell us how the General Assembly members are chosen and who they are, recognizing you profess to have all this first hand insight about the OWS' internal operations
    you are just a treasure trove of information. thank you in advance

    Any action by the Occupy movement must be by consensus.
    now you are confusing me. admittedly, an easy thing to do
    but you just got thru telling us that the General Assemblies made ALL the OWS decisions
    now you are saying something quite different. you are now telling us that OWS decisions are made by consensus. so, which is it, consensus or General Assembly that drives the decision making

    You can only get that consensus through the General assemblies.
    that does not make sense, either
    consensus indicates that all have provided their consent to a decision
    but it also indicates that consensus can also be blocked by one (or a designated portion) of the participants participating in the decision making
    so, explain for us the process used to establish consensus developed at the General Assemblies' level

    The general assembly is a small percentage of the Occupy movement. So the reality is that the General assembly is dictating to the majority of the followers of the Occupy movement.
    but that is the opposite outcome than is expected when decisions are made by consensus
    the decision is not finalized until whatever degree of consent has been established as satisfactory has been attained

    so, what you have done with your post is prompt a lot of questions, while you have offered - at least thus far - very few answers
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    They represent the portion of the citizenry that agrees with them.
    Agreed.

    Then they shouldn't claim to be the 99%...?

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Agreed.

    Then they shouldn't claim to be the 99%...?
    I don't think they should, no. However, I would say it's a minor sin. Both statements are obviously opinion.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    Dividing the population by income is a false flag. It is an attempt to manipulate people to join a movement that has a specific ideology.
    No, it is a statement about what they represent. All movements have a theme which they represent. Hence we had movements to get rid of racist policies, to get equal rights for women, to make being gay legal and get equal rights for them and working for workers rights through Unions or the Labour party in the UK. The occupy is a movement. As such it has something which it is addressing. Now in the '80's the movement was all against the Unions who were blamed for getting everyone into recession. Unions lost rights and workers lost rights. Politics lost. In the UK the Labour Party became New Labour simply carrying on the neo liberal policies of Thatcherism. Voices went quiet and people were left with no one to represent them and speak for them. This made people available to movements in the UK like the BNP and the EDL - far right groups. I am sure you have your own.

    That was then, this is now. Who caused this recession? The very worst since the Great Depression - some say even worse than that and more to come? The 1% of course, or maybe more accurately the 0.1% who have been quietly making society more unequal since the 1980's recession.

    The Occupy movement concerns this. That is what it is about. Now you do not need to agree with them. Indeed they seem to be the most democratic people I have heard for quite some time, but like it or not, if you are in the 99% then they are also speaking about you.

    You may stay where you are. That is your right. I don't even know that much about them but I am very glad to at last see some people willing to make a stand.





    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post

    The 'occupy movement' is asking us to jump off a bridge just because they are. By trying to make the majority of the 'common folk' hostile towards the 'rich folk'.
    Oh that is so silly. Did the people who worked for gay rights try to make people hostile towards heterosexuals. They are pointing out a very real situation which has been going on since the 1980's and which is the reason why we are in the situation we are in now and suggesting we change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post

    Meanwhile the Occupiers purposely makes the appearance of having no real agenda. But there are some facts about the Occupy movement: The movement is entirely from the Left. Is factional. There is not any agreement among those factions. There is a large amount of far leftists among the General Assemblies. The General Assembly mechanism makes all of the decisions for the Occupy movement. Any action by the Occupy movement must be by consensus. You can only get that consensus through the General assemblies.
    I don't think it will only be left and certainly not far left. What you have is people making a statement. In time things will develop simply because they have got people talking. Vince Cable for instance a LibDem MP says he can understand a lot of where they come from. We have long time been just for ourselves - as Madam Thatcher said 'There is no society'. They are saying 'Yes there is'.

    They are talking about 'Turning a Global Crises into a Global Opportunity'. Assuming the Movement grows, it is going to attract lots of different people. The best ideas will be picked up and it could indeed move towards Global change but that will be because people want it. They are just opening the conversation.

    So here is a start Robin Hood Tax | Robin Hood Tax
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  10. #190
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Do they, really?

    When you make such a broad claim, you're going to have to convince us.
    If you are already convinced the super rich are the ones most looking out for your interests, rather than their bottom line, there is nothing I can say to make you think otherwise.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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