View Poll Results: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

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  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    24 18.32%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    30 22.90%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    23 17.56%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    54 41.22%
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Thread: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  1. #121
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    I have read about the Vietnam War protests at Kent State.
    Not so funny at all....how history repeats itself.
    Non violence does not always work.
    Depends on how you mean that. Yes, those that practice non-violent protest are subject to arrest, physical harm and even death, as your example at Kent State reveals. Non-violent civil disobedience takes no small amount of bravery. However, Gandhi was successful at gaining the independence for India, the Civil Rights Movement was successful in ending segregation, the anti-war protesters were successful with their goal of helping bring about the end to the Vietnam war, the list goes on and on.

    From my reading it seems more often than not, if non-violent protests can be sustained, they are usually effective.

    Here is a bit of History of Mass Nonviolent Action:

    "The use of nonviolence runs throughout history. There have been numerous instances of people courageously and nonviolently refusing cooperation with injustice. However, the fusion of organized mass struggle and nonviolence is relatively new. It originated largely with Mohandas Gandhi in 1906 at the onset of the South African campaign for Indian rights. Later, the Indian struggle for complete independence from the British Empire included a number of spectacular nonviolent campaigns. Perhaps the most notable was the year-long Salt campaign in which 100,000 Indians were jailed for deliberately violating the Salt Laws.
    The refusal to counter the violence of the repressive social system with more violence is a tactic that has also been used by other movements. The militant campaign for women's suffrage in Britain included a variety of nonviolent tactics such as boycotts, noncooperation, limited property destruction, civil disobedience, mass marches and demonstrations, filling the jails, and disruption of public ceremonies.

    The Salvadoran people have used nonviolence as one powerful and necessary element of their struggle. Particularly during the 1960s and 70s, Christian based communities, labor unions, campesino organizations, and student groups held occupations and sit-ins at universities, government offices, and places of work such as factories and haciendas.
    There is rich tradition of nonviolent protest in this country as well, including Harriet Tubman's underground railroad during the civil war and Henry David Thoreau's refusal to pay war taxes. Nonviolent civil disobedience was a critical factor in gaining women the right to vote in the United States, as well.

    The U.S. labor movement has also used nonviolence with striking effectiveness in a number of instances, such as the Industrial Workers of the World (IVVW) free speech confrontations, the Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) sit-down strikes from 1935-1937 in auto plants, and the UFW grape and lettuce boycotts.
    Using mass nonviolent action, the civil rights movement changed the face of the South. The Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) initiated modem nonviolent action for civil rights with sit-ins and a freedom ride in the 1940s. The successful Montgomery bus boycott electrified the nation. Then, the early 1960s exploded with nonviolent actions: sit-ins at lunch counters and other facilities, organized by the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC); Freedom Rides to the South organized by CORE; the nonviolent battles against segregation in Birmingham, Alabama, by the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC); and the 1963 March on Washington, which drew 250,000 participants.
    Opponents of the Vietnam War employed the use of draft card burnings, draft file destruction, mass demonstrations (such as the 500,000 who turned out in 1969 in Washington, D.C.), sit-ins, blocking induction centers, draft and tax resistance, and the historic 1971 May Day traffic blocking in Washington, D.C. in which 13,000 people were arrested.

    Since the mid-70s, we have seen increasing nonviolent activity against the nuclear arms race and nuclear power industry. Nonviolent civil disobedience actions have taken place at dozens of nuclear weapons research installations, storage areas, missile silos, test sites, military bases, corporate and government offices and nuclear power plants. In the late 1970s mass civil disobedience actions took place at nuclear power plants from Seabrook, New Hampshire to the Diablo Canyon reactor in California and most states in between in this country and in other countries around the world. In 1982, 1750 people were arrested at the U.N. missions of the five major nuclear powers. Mass actions took place at the Livermore Laboratories in California and SAC bases in the Midwest. In the late 80s a series of actions took place at the Nevada test site. International disarmament actions changed world opinion about nuclear weapons."

    Read more at Nonviolence
    Last edited by Catawba; 11-21-11 at 05:33 AM.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I know there are many individual OWS movements around the country, but in general, do you believe that the OWS movement represents the grievances, complaints, & desires of the 99% of the USA?

    Keep in mind, the 99% means those folks in the USA who make less than $379,000 a year.
    I still have no idea what all the fuss is about...like, at all.

    Everything was going along just fine, then all of a sudden one day there were stories of thousands of people protesting nothing coherent, meaningless platitudes which read like horoscopes and can mean anything the reader wants them to mean were chanted, and the news media, always keen to talk about nothing important, would speak of nothing else.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-21-11 at 05:51 AM.

  3. #123
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    An Anarchist member group of OWS does not equate to OWS as being anarchist. Anarchist, do not utilize non-violent civil disobedience as OWS has done nationwide.

    Their stated goal is economic justice, not anarchy, but nice try.
    You do not seem to understand the significance of the New York General Assembly. Do you even understand what the Occupy General Assembly is? The General Assembly as used by all of the Occupations is a model of a system which is Anarchy. Why do you think the Occupy movement is leaderless?

    But dont take my word for it. Listen to the Occupiers themselves Demystifying Anarchism at Occupy | Anarchist news dot org

    Document aimed at clearing the media-driven confusion around anarchism / violence / disorder. A product of the Bay Area Anarchist General Assembly on 11/06/2011. We've been passing this flier out, with the attached cartoon image on the back at every GA this week, to a positive response. Provided here on anarchistnews.org for anyone facing similar misconceptions in their towns. Feel free to edit and add, after all it was hastily put together.
    Long live the Oakland Commune!


    DEMYSTIFYING ANARCHISM

    After the events of November 2nd and 3rd we have seen the government, the corporate media, and even some of our comrades within the Occupy Oakland camp make "anarchists" the scapegoats for actions they disagree with, and we've heard that “anarchists” take advantage of the Occupy movement without “being a part of it.” However, many essential aspects of the Occupy movement are based on anarchist principles and build upon years of anarchist organizing.

    To clear up any confusion, we, various individuals who participate in the anarchist community, offer this explanation of anarchist principles to prevent confusion and ignorance from defining us and dividing the solidarity of our Occupy Oakland camp.

    Anarchism is a revolutionary political philosophy, theory, and way of living that strives toward a more free and equal society without government, authority, domination, capitalism, or oppression. Key to the anarchist analysis is its unflinching criticism of authority, or of some people holding established power over others. The word anarchy comes from the Greek words, αν (an), αρχη (arkhe), and means without authority or government. Anarchism considers government in any form (from false democracy to state communism) unnecessary, harmful, and undesirable―we advocate for the self-management of society and reject the State form. The General Assemblies and committees within Occupy are experiments in this kind of self-management. But anarchism has always been an idea open to change, transforming itself in theory and practice as it grows.

    From a philosophy of freedom and equality, almost all anarchists extend the analysis against government authority to reject oppression, exploitation or any situation where some people hold established power over others. As such, anarchists stand against economic forms of domination like capitalism, private property, and any system that places profits over people. It follows that anarchists oppose interpersonal oppression such as racism, sexism, ageism, and homophobia. In accordance with these values, anarchists strive to build personal relationships free of domination. Thus, anarchists emphasize self-governance, organize without leaders, and embrace a diversity of opinions and actions.


    In fact, several Occupy Oakland GA resolutions are based on anarchist ideas and actions, including:
    • The rejection of government endorsements and political parties.
    • The agreement to treat every GA speaker equally with no special privileges.
    • The agreement to not allow police within the encampment.
    • Solidarity with all striking workers and students.

    We are not free until we determine our own lives. Instead of accepting the way things are now, anarchism stands for a horizontal society where every human enjoys the most freedom and relative equality possible―a society where people stand together and share resources from each according to ability, to each according to need.

    The word “anarchy” is often misused in the place of “violence”, “chaos” or “disorder” by both the ignorant and those interested in distorting the truth. Historically, social ideas like anarchism have inspired people to action of many types, from tactics such as property damage, to strategies like self-education and even armed revolutionary self-defense. However, violence is not part of the definition of what it is to be an anarchist, and it is important to be able to separate the two.

    The flip side of this flyer illustrates how many anarchist principles are put into action throughout Occupy Oakland. For more info, we suggest you do your own research. Searching anarchism on wikipedia might be a good starting point, it contains many useful links. We also encourage conversation with various folks who identify as anarchists at the occupation and elsewhere.

    cute occupy cartoon demystifying anarchism at occupy oakland : Indybay
    Be sure to look at this cartoon at the last link.

    I know it must be hard to accept that the Occupy movement is a radical Anarchist movement but all of the facts are easy to find. But if you want to refuse to see the obvious what can I do?


    BTW on the 12th of December Occupy Oakland General Assembly voted ( they didnt really vote but anyways) for a Coordinated West Coast Port Shutdown.

    From Occupy Oakland
    Proposal for a Coordinated West Coast Port Shutdown, Passed With Unanimous Consensus by vote of the Occupy Oakland General Assembly 11/18/2012:

    In response to coordinated attacks on the occupations and attacks on workers across the nation:
    Read the rest of their plan at the link. "Since the EGT has disregarded this message, and continues to attack the Longshoremen at Longview, we will now shut down ports along the entire West Coast." DO you think that Liberals are planning to shut down the entire west coast area ports? I am pretty sure that the Conservatives will try to blame Liberals for it especially when it is right before Christmas. Will you still support and claim that the Occupy movement is non-violent Liberal later when those pesky founders of your movement start upping the anti?

  4. #124
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I still have no idea what all the fuss is about...like, at all.

    Everything was going along just fine, then all of a sudden one day there were stories of thousands of people protesting nothing coherent, meaningless platitudes which read like horoscopes and can mean anything the reader wants them to mean were chanted, and the news media, always keen to talk about nothing important, would speak of nothing else.
    Probably the quickest way for you to get caught up is to watch the award winning documentary, Inside Job. It is available on Netflix, and a number of free online sites.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #125
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Probably the quickest way for you to get caught up is to watch the award winning documentary, Inside Job. It is available on Netflix, and a number of free online sites.
    Sorry, I'm busy having a life.

  6. #126
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    You do not seem to understand the significance of the New York General Assembly. Do you even understand what the Occupy General Assembly is? The General Assembly as used by all of the Occupations is a model of a system which is Anarchy. Why do you think the Occupy movement is leaderless?

    But dont take my word for it.

    Don't worry, I didn't:

    "Open assemblies like the GA have roots in classical anarchism, Native American tribal councils, Quakerism, and the post–World War II feminist, civil-rights, and anti-nuclear movements, Scheider said. -- "Ask those who have been at Liberty Plaza since the beginning, and you’ll probably hear about the influence of the assembly-based May 15 movement in Spain...."

    COMMENTARY: Mechanics and origins of OWS non-hierarchical general assembly process
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #127
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Sorry, I'm busy having a life.
    Well why whine that your are in the dark about what's going on in the country then?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Well why whine that your are in the dark about what's going on in the country then?
    Oh, my bad, I was supposed to be a statement of pride, that I have better things to do. Carry on.

  9. #129
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I don't suppose you know what they mean. How can someone be a statist and an anarchist? They are contradictory terms (or the term mutually exclusive).
    in a society where we havent' deliberately used the state to set one interest against another, that would be correct - however, as states are forced to reduce their domestic spending, we have actually seen surges in pro-statist anarchy (particularly in the form of riots) across the West. The rioters in Greece that burned down a bank with the workers trapped inside were mostly government workers, but they are hardly the only example - and the OWS crowd is our own home-grown.

    remember, these people see the state as a redistributive mechanism - with themselves as the rightful benefactors. there is no particular reason why they would suppose that the rule of law therefore applied to them.

  10. #130
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Neither do the majority of tens of thousands of OWS protesters attack police or innocents.
    and the vast majority of members of the military do not kill people. obviously the military is not an organization built around violence.

    Yes, Gandhi, the civil rights movement, the Vietnam protesters, all occupied public areas. What part of civil disobedience do you not understand? I myself helped block the main entrance to the Wright-Patterson AFB during the Vietnam war, and we handcuffed ourselves together after surrounding the federal building in Harrisburg, PA.
    then you should have been arrested and I hope you were - just like the OWS crowd should be. if you want to engage in civil disobedience, you accept the price of that. if your "civil disobedience" includes molotovs and hurling pieces of concrete, then the price will be rubber bullets if you are lucky. if your "civil disobedience" is illegal occupation, then you will be arrested and should spend at least a night in prison.

    Occupy Oakland Calls For Shutdown Of ALL West Coast Ports

    civil disobedience? this is economic warfare, and the idiots don't even realize they are waging it against our working and middle class.

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