Thread: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

Originally Posted by Thunder

do you find it always necessary to refer to those you disagree with, by offensive & childish epithets?

I call the OWS people as I see them. truth is what I do here. BTW what does this post of yours suggest?

Originally Posted by Thunder

I'm sorry, but I cut off your post once it lost all logical and rationality.

Originally Posted by Thunder

really? that's funny...as OWSNY has never listed any goals, especially the overthrow of Capitalism and the imposition of Communism by violent means.

you must have some amazing inside sources.

The declaration by NYCGA (they are the ones that started OWS) is very anti-Capitalism. What do you think the entire anti Wall street thing is about? Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard

They are definitely demanding "direct democracy" as the goal.

And then there is this:

We must be accountable to ourselves. First and foremost, we are calling upon ourselves, and upon one another, to wake up and employ our power as citizens: to participate rather than observe, to raise our strong voices together, rather than complaining feebly in isolation. We cannot ‘whine’ about the injustices wreaked upon us if we have been complacent and silent in the face of these injustices. We must take responsibility for our own futures – and here at Liberty Plaza, that is exactly what we are doing, by modeling the kind of society in which everyone has a right to live. Here in Liberty Plaza, having lost our sense that we live in a democracy, we are reclaiming its practice.
Our government must be accountable to us, and corporations must be accountable to the government. We are saying definitively: We no longer live in a democracy, and we refuse to accept that. We seek an end to the collusion between corrupt politicians and corporate criminals, as democratic and capitalist institutions have become conflated. As such we must see major advances in the arena of the relationship between corporations, and people, on par with the amendments which outlawed slavery and assured civil rights to all people regardless of race, sex, or class. FAQ | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street

They defiantly are anti-Capitalism. But lets get back to those demands:

So this leads back to the question: Why do we seem to have not just one, but many demands? We are not
simply asking for an end to the war (we have already done that). We are not simply asking for equal rights
for one group or another (we have already done that). We are not asking for respect for the earth and its
remaining resources (we have already done that). We are not calling for changes to existing labor laws, or
trade agreements (we have already done that). We are not even calling for an overhaul of the Securities and
Exchange Commission or the Federal Reserve, or an end to corporate personhood. We are calling for all these
things and more!

So why do we seem to have not just one, but many demands? Precisely because we are a movement descended
from each and every one of these movements: The abolitionist movement, the workers’ rights movement,
the women’s movement, the civil rights movement, the feminist and queer liberation movements, the
environmental movement. We welcome all who will join in this exercise of participatory democracy, as we
challenge what we know to be the greatest obstacle to the democratic progression of these movements. http://www.nycga.net/resources/faq/

For those that don't seem to know the difference:

Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism

"Reports in the media (and most conservatives, natch) have been attempting to label the OWS movement as anti-capitalist, and the label seems to be catching on, but nothing could be further from the truth. What "We Are the 99%" clearly and directly signifies is that OWS is anti-oligarchy, not anti-capitalism. And anti-oligarchy is easily the best label for the movement.

Oligarchies have always been, and will always be, the greatest enemy of collective social good. Oligarchies concentrate power in the hands of the few, disempower the rest and impose their rule upon the masses. Throughout most of recorded history, oligarchies governed the masses directly -- as divine monarchs, as non-democratically-elected dictators, or as the heads of religious nation-states (and sometimes as a combination of all three)."

"Our current oligarchy found corruptible, money-hungry politicians on both sides of the political aisle, but its strongest ally has undoubtedly been the modern GOP. In the last three decades the Republican Party has proven itself pro-oligarchy in absolutely everything it does--and not just in its capitalist wing, but in its theocratic wing as well (though often it seems GOP leaders pander to the theocrats). These two factions sometimes clash as the oligarchic heads of both groups try to assert and assume power over the other, but both have found a very sympathetic ally in the GOP; a political party that now proudly announces declares itself the defender of the powerful against the weak."

Sprizouse: Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism

Originally Posted by Catawba

For those that don't seem to know the difference:

Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism

"Reports in the media (and most conservatives, natch) have been attempting to label the OWS movement as anti-capitalist, and the label seems to be catching on, but nothing could be further from the truth. What "We Are the 99%" clearly and directly signifies is that OWS is anti-oligarchy, not anti-capitalism.

OWS is very anti-Capitalism. As documented OWS was started and is being maintained by Anarchist Socialism. The General Assembly all the way down to their hand signals was created by Anarcho Communist's. And is a well known fact that Anarcho Communists are anti-Capitalists.

Originally Posted by Freedom From al

OWS is very anti-Capitalism. As documented OWS was started and is being maintained by Anarchist Socialism. The General Assembly all the way down to their hand signals was created by Anarcho Communist's. And is a well known fact that Anarcho Communists are anti-Capitalists.

An Anarchist member group of OWS does not equate to OWS as being anarchist. Anarchist, do not utilize non-violent civil disobedience as OWS has done nationwide.

Their stated goal is economic justice, not anarchy, but nice try.

Originally Posted by Catawba

So I will have to take your word that Korean are the only protests on the planet that are more non-violent than the OWS protests?

uh oh, what's this:

"SEOUL, South Korea — The government of President Lee Myung-bak sealed off major rallying points in central Seoul on Sunday after hundreds of citizens and police officers were injured during a protest against United States beef imports.

Police buses cordoned off plazas and intersections where large crowds have gathered almost daily since early May to demand that the government renegotiate the deal. Police officers blocked subway entrances and alleys leading to those rallying points.

Still, protesters broke into several groups of hundreds and marched Sunday evening, engaging in sporadic shoving matches with the police.

Justice Minister Kim Kyung-han said in a statement on Sunday, “We will chase those who instigate violent protests and those who use violence to the end and bring them to justice.”
Beef Protest Turns Violent in South Korea - NYTimes.com


"Union leader warns of violence during G20 protests in South Korea"
Union leader warns of violence during G20 protests in South Korea - CSMonitor.com

"S. Korea: Protests turn violent near APEC venue(Photos of Pinkos Acting Up)
S. Korea: Protests turn violent near APEC venue(Photos of Pinkos Acting Up)

Those were the only ones I knew about.
That protest lasted for weeks, and that was three years ago. Massive fail.
I also said that thsoe protests were the only ones I knew about. Unlike OWS, the protest against US beef was because Lee-Myung-Bak provoked violence by sending out high-pressure water cannons to dissolve the protest. OWS is different, because unlike the Korean one against US beef, they public did drugs, assaulted the police which was unarmed and was just standing guard, has no viable solution or message, attacked innocent bystanders and likewise denied access to thousands in public areas.

Originally Posted by Catawba

For those that don't seem to know the difference:

Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism

"Reports in the media (and most conservatives, natch) have been attempting to label the OWS movement as anti-capitalist, and the label seems to be catching on, but nothing could be further from the truth. What "We Are the 99%" clearly and directly signifies is that OWS is anti-oligarchy, not anti-capitalism. And anti-oligarchy is easily the best label for the movement.

Oligarchies have always been, and will always be, the greatest enemy of collective social good. Oligarchies concentrate power in the hands of the few, disempower the rest and impose their rule upon the masses. Throughout most of recorded history, oligarchies governed the masses directly -- as divine monarchs, as non-democratically-elected dictators, or as the heads of religious nation-states (and sometimes as a combination of all three)."

"Our current oligarchy found corruptible, money-hungry politicians on both sides of the political aisle, but its strongest ally has undoubtedly been the modern GOP. In the last three decades the Republican Party has proven itself pro-oligarchy in absolutely everything it does--and not just in its capitalist wing, but in its theocratic wing as well (though often it seems GOP leaders pander to the theocrats). These two factions sometimes clash as the oligarchic heads of both groups try to assert and assume power over the other, but both have found a very sympathetic ally in the GOP; a political party that now proudly announces declares itself the defender of the powerful against the weak."

Sprizouse: Anti-Oligarchy is not Anti-Capitalism

Again, fail. Oligarchy is a type of government, not a social system.
It also declared that the GOP only gets donations from corporate power, the Democrats take about as much "dirty" money as the GOP.
Another hyperpartisan article. Where do you get them?

Nobel prize winning economist, Joseph Stiglitz, explains at an OWS teach-in what's broken with our system.

Originally Posted by Proud South Korean

Those were the only ones I knew about.
That protest lasted for weeks, and that was three years ago. Massive fail.
I also said that thsoe protests were the only ones I knew about. Unlike OWS, the protest against US beef was because Lee-Myung-Bak provoked violence by sending out high-pressure water cannons to dissolve the protest. OWS is different, because unlike the Korean one against US beef, they public did drugs, assaulted the police which was unarmed and was just standing guard, has no viable solution or message, attacked innocent bystanders and likewise denied access to thousands in public areas.

how dare you cat?
damn it, quit posting cites with facts, undermining korean's bogus assertions

Originally Posted by justabubba

how dare you cat?
damn it, quit posting cites with facts, undermining korean's bogus assertions

WTF is that supposed to mean? Cat? Bogus assertions?