View Poll Results: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

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  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    24 18.32%
  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    30 22.90%
  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    23 17.56%
  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    54 41.22%
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Thread: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  1. #91
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'm sorry, but I cut off your post once it lost all logical and rationality.
    You do not believe that it is logical or rational to recognize that this nation has become very polarized politically? We have two groups the Right with the Tea Party promoting 'Revolution' and the Left Occupy movement promoting 'Revolution'. Where do you think that is leading? Both sides want their way and refuse to compromise on that fact. Conflict leads to more conflict does it not? Both view the countries situation on some level as beyond repair. The Occupiers have said many times that they are in this for the long run. Meaning that they will only quit when they get their way. Their way is the destruction of the US Government and Capitalism.

    Now tell me how are they going to do that without causing a Civil War? I for one will exercise my right to bear arms to stop them if they start succeeding. And I am quit sure that I am not alone in that threat. Occupiers are hell bent on taking over this country and I wonder what they are planning on doing with non-Leftists?

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    Leftists are statists, not anarchists.
    That is true when talking about true Anarchists. But the Occupy movement specifically NYCGA are Anarcho Socialists which are also called Anarcho Communist. They believe in forced Revolution to change society to a Communist state.

  3. #93
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    That is true when talking about true Anarchists. But the Occupy movement specifically NYCGA are Anarcho Socialists which are also called Anarcho Communist. They believe in forced Revolution to change society to a Communist state.
    really? that's funny...as OWSNY has never listed any goals, especially the overthrow of Capitalism and the imposition of Communism by violent means.

    you must have some amazing inside sources.

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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom From al View Post
    That is true when talking about true Anarchists. But the Occupy movement specifically NYCGA are Anarcho Socialists which are also called Anarcho Communist. They believe in forced Revolution to change society to a Communist state.
    The end state of communism is no state. Again, leftists are statists, not people who want to abolish the state. Anarchists socialists agree with ancaps on many things, except the concentration of capital. Instead of capital commanding labor, they believe that labor should command capital. Otherwise, the centralization of capital into the hands of the state would produce a new type of ruling class as we have seen in such political regimes as the Soviet Union, Peoples’ Republic of China, Democratic Republic of Vietnam and so on.

    Its seems that you are conflating OWS with Red October in which the similarities are far and few.

  5. #95
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    How would you go about achieving economic justice?
    " 1.
    1. CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" H.R. 1489: Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011 (GovTrack.us) ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. Glass --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: Glass .

    1.
    *
    Vote on Demand #1 Here
    2.

    USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list.
    *
    Vote on Demand #2 Here
    3.

    CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media.
    *
    Vote on Demand #3 Here
    4.

    CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.
    *
    Vote on Demand #4 Here
    5.

    CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.
    *
    Vote on Demand #5 Here
    6.

    CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.
    *
    Vote on Demand #6 Here
    7.

    CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control.
    *
    Vote on Demand #7 Here
    8.

    ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". THE CORPORATION [2/23] Birth - YouTube . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight.
    *
    Vote on Deman #8 Here"

    Occupy Wall Street Demands - coupmedia.org
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #96
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    " 1.
    1. CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" H.R. 1489: Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011 (GovTrack.us) ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. Glass --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: Glass .

    1.
    *
    Vote on Demand #1 Here
    2.

    USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list.
    *
    Vote on Demand #2 Here
    3.

    CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media.
    *
    Vote on Demand #3 Here
    4.

    CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.
    *
    Vote on Demand #4 Here
    5.

    CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.
    *
    Vote on Demand #5 Here
    6.

    CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.
    *
    Vote on Demand #6 Here
    7.

    CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control.
    *
    Vote on Demand #7 Here
    8.

    ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". THE CORPORATION [2/23] Birth - YouTube . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight.
    *
    Vote on Deman #8 Here"

    Occupy Wall Street Demands - coupmedia.org
    Well-written out, I appreciate a textual list of demands instead of vague generalities. I'd agree with almost all of their ideals even some are easier said then done.

  7. #97
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    Leftists are statists, not anarchists.
    what makes you think the two are mutually exclusive?
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-20-11 at 10:39 PM.

  8. #98
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    what makes you think the two are mutually exclusive?
    I don't suppose you know what they mean. How can someone be a statist and an anarchist? They are contradictory terms (or the term mutually exclusive).
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  9. #99
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    The end state of communism is no state. Again, leftists are statists, not people who want to abolish the state. Anarchists socialists agree with ancaps on many things, except the concentration of capital. Instead of capital commanding labor, they believe that labor should command capital. Otherwise, the centralization of capital into the hands of the state would produce a new type of ruling class as we have seen in such political regimes as the Soviet Union, Peoples’ Republic of China, Democratic Republic of Vietnam and so on.

    Its seems that you are conflating OWS with Red October in which the similarities are far and few.
    Ok I did not word that correctly. My bad. I used the word "state" as a noun which has caused confusion I admit. had I meant "state" as an adjective I would have wrote "They believe in forced Revolution to change society into a Communist state. I also should have put Anarchist in front of Communism.

    I do understand very well the differences between the different types of Anarchy and the different types of Communism. For example you are assuming since I mentioned the word Communism that I must be talking about Leninism, otherwise you would not have mentioned Red October. And since Anarcho Communism and Leninism are very different I was obviously not talking about the type of Communism that you are assuming.

    Which is all besides the point that I was making, that OWS was started by radicals not your run of the mill harmless liberal. But while we are on the subject the Anarcho Communist behind OWS are not very good at what they preach. They have set themselves up in an hierarchical position by creating the two websites that they run. In fact they require that other organisations get their approval. Certainly not typical Anarchist behavior. Which makes me think that maybe the Red bloc has some major influence on them.

  10. #100
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    Re: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    You forgot GREED
    An oversight or deliberate ?
    "occutards" ?
    You disagree and find it necessary to abase.
    The Wall Street Occupiers have the gumption and will to protest - give them credit -..
    Grow up !
    they are assclowns-pure and simple



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