View Poll Results: Do You Support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

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Thread: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how does this involve "trickle down economics"

    that has become the bugaboo of the extreme left these days
    The failed Trickle down economics of the last 30 years, (cutting taxes for the rich and deregulation) is large part of why we have economic justice problems.

    As the protesters and the majority of the country are saying, we need to re-regulate the banks and eliminate the tax cuts for the rich. The same type of self-correction came about after the failure of trickle down economics in the 1920's.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The failed Trickle down economics of the last 30 years, (cutting taxes for the rich and deregulation) is large part of why we have economic justice problems.
    Exactly so. I've been saying since the mid-80's that deregulation would eventually gut the economy. When deregulation made it "legal" for municipalities, etc., to invest public funds... taxpayer money... in unsecure investments and junk bonds, I was the Finance Director for a SoCal city. The counsel was trying to force me to invest city money in pyramid schemes, basically, that was run by the then County Comptroller. I refused and decided to leave my position. A few years later, the city was nearly bankrupt from the bad investments, and the County Comptroller was on trial for fraud.

    As the protesters and the majority of the country are saying, we need to re-regulate the banks and eliminate the tax cuts for the rich. The same type of self-correction came about after the failure of trickle down economics in the 1920's.
    If that was indeed what the protesters are saying, I'd support them. But they are not saying it. They are not a cohesive movement with clear goals and an identifiable message. They need to organize themselves, like the Tea Party did, and get candidates on the ballot who are quite clearly saying "re-regulate banks and investment houses, protect the principle of public funds by regulating the securities in which they can be invested." Until someone steps into the media spotlight and tells the world decisively what they want, they're just another bunch of anarchists mucking up public streets.

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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Exactly so. I've been saying since the mid-80's that deregulation would eventually gut the economy. When deregulation made it "legal" for municipalities, etc., to invest public funds... taxpayer money... in unsecure investments and junk bonds, I was the Finance Director for a SoCal city. The counsel was trying to force me to invest city money in pyramid schemes, basically, that was run by the then County Comptroller. I refused and decided to leave my position. A few years later, the city was nearly bankrupt from the bad investments, and the County Comptroller was on trial for fraud.
    Quite so, the very top item on the proposed list of demands in formulation by the OWS protesters is passage of Bill 1489 to once again establish the firewall between investment banks and commercial banks.


    If that was indeed what the protesters are saying, I'd support them. But they are not saying it. They are not a cohesive movement with clear goals and an identifiable message. They need to organize themselves, like the Tea Party did, and get candidates on the ballot who are quite clearly saying "re-regulate banks and investment houses, protect the principle of public funds by regulating the securities in which they can be invested." Until someone steps into the media spotlight and tells the world decisively what they want, they're just another bunch of anarchists mucking up public streets.

    Their main goal is provided on their website ~

    "The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future."
    About Us | OccupyWallSt.org

    "The Sovereign People’s Movement, represented nationally through the people occupying the various Liberty Square locations across this great country, have laid out and democratically submitted and are currently voting on the list of following Demands to then be distilled into one Unified Common demand of the people.
    Participate in Democracy and Vote Here to Have Your Voice Heard

    First of all. There are no Official Demands of the Occupy Movement. that being said, multiple factions of the movement have been assembling to discuss and vote on the output and message for the movement. Below is a LIST OF PROPOSED “DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS” proposed by the website (occupywallstreet.org) which does not entirely represent the Occupy Wall Street General Assembly. Below this list is a list of grievance that citizens have provided nationally and have voted on in solidarity of the movement.
    LIST OF PROPOSED “DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS

    1. CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 (“RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT” H.R. 1489: Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011 (GovTrack.us) ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act — Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors’ money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here’s detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act#Repeal.
    Vote Here #1
    2. USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven’t been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film “Inside Job” that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn’t take long to develop the list.

    Vote Here #2
    3. CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media.
    Vote Here #3
    4. CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher…back to what they once were in the 50′s and 60′s.

    Vote Here #4
    5. CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It’s currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.
    Vote Here #5
    6. CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.
    Vote Here #6
    7. CONGRESS PASSING “Revolving Door Legislation” LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don’t get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they’re at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control.
    Vote Here #7
    8. ELIMINATE “PERSONHOOD” LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film “The Corporation” has a great section on how corporations won “personhood status”. THE CORPORATION [2/23] Birth - YouTube. Fast-forward to 2:20. It’ll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you “can’t deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law”. Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said “corporations are people.” Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It’s time to set this straight.
    Vote Here #8
    Occupy Wall Street – Official Demands || AK Rockefeller
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Reading that, Catawba, I support all of those goals. Now they need to stop what they're doing and mainstream themselves and their message. Most of America is sick of seeing tent cities on the news, and having some long-haired, foul-mouthed 20-something waving a fist in the air screaming at news crews. They are not only damaging their cause, they are destroying it.

    They need a group of leaders with maturity, brains, and the knowledge to get their message out on the media in an intelligent, understandable manner. I'll vote for them, guaran-damn-teed... and I don't care what political party they align with.

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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Reading that, Catawba, I support all of those goals. Now they need to stop what they're doing and mainstream themselves and their message. Most of America is sick of seeing tent cities on the news, and having some long-haired, foul-mouthed 20-something waving a fist in the air screaming at news crews. They are not only damaging their cause, they are destroying it.

    They need a group of leaders with maturity, brains, and the knowledge to get their message out on the media in an intelligent, understandable manner. I'll vote for them, guaran-damn-teed... and I don't care what political party they align with.
    I don't even agree with most of them, but political maturity needs to happen quick. Whereas I was critical of the Tea Party for being hopelessly naive and politically irrelevant until they came up with specific policies that could possibly get through (however unlikely), I hardly disrespected their method of gaining attention. I didn't think it fantastic to stand around with a sign, but I didn't abhor them. The OWS contained all of the weaknesses of the early Tea Party and added the utter disrespect for authority, community and private property, and the laws of the land.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 11-17-11 at 11:40 PM.
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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Reading that, Catawba, I support all of those goals. Now they need to stop what they're doing and mainstream themselves and their message. Most of America is sick of seeing tent cities on the news, and having some long-haired, foul-mouthed 20-something waving a fist in the air screaming at news crews. They are not only damaging their cause, they are destroying it.

    They need a group of leaders with maturity, brains, and the knowledge to get their message out on the media in an intelligent, understandable manner. I'll vote for them, guaran-damn-teed... and I don't care what political party they align with.
    Their approval this month is only 2% lower than last month by all the polls I've seen. Their leadership may change over time, but I don't see the protests in the US, and the others around the world, stopping until the goals have been achieved.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I don't see how anyone can support OWS. I can understand standing up against corporate greed and corporate involvement in government... But acting like children and throwing a tantrum isn't the way to stand up for those ideals.
    Thus jugdeth digsbe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Reading that, Catawba, I support all of those goals. Now they need to stop what they're doing and mainstream themselves and their message. Most of America is sick of seeing tent cities on the news, and having some long-haired, foul-mouthed 20-something waving a fist in the air screaming at news crews. They are not only damaging their cause, they are destroying it.

    They need a group of leaders with maturity, brains, and the knowledge to get their message out on the media in an intelligent, understandable manner. I'll vote for them, guaran-damn-teed... and I don't care what political party they align with.
    If the group were in fact mainstream, we'd be written off and ignored. Counter that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  9. #89
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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Reading that, Catawba, I support all of those goals. Now they need to stop what they're doing and mainstream themselves and their message. Most of America is sick of seeing tent cities on the news, and having some long-haired, foul-mouthed 20-something waving a fist in the air screaming at news crews. They are not only damaging their cause, they are destroying it.

    They need a group of leaders with maturity, brains, and the knowledge to get their message out on the media in an intelligent, understandable manner. I'll vote for them, guaran-damn-teed... and I don't care what political party they align with.
    Catawba didn't post all of them from this list. Here are the rest:

    List of Further Demands:

    Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field…
    Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market…
    Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.
    Demand four: Free college education.
    Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.
    Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.
    Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.
    Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.
    Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.
    Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.
    Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.
    Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.
    Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union
    These are from Catawba's link earlier in this thread: PICKET: Occupy Wall Street protesters post manifesto of 'demands' - Washington Times

    Also, please notice that none of these are adopted -- but merely suggestions. Including Catawba's post that you agree with.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Do you support OWS Protesters Plans to "Shut Down Wall Street"?

    Duplicate post deleted.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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