View Poll Results: If the mayor evicts you, would you leave?

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  • I would leave the park.

    17 60.71%
  • I would refuse to leave the park.

    11 39.29%
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Thread: Would you leave the park?

  1. #81
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    If the Individuals had not given up any pretense of attempting to maintain some form of decency, morality, and values in society I wouldn't be sitting here advocating for the Government over the Individual, but when the Individuals cannot even maintain the slightest amount of common decency or values in their own society and become nothing more than animals, someone needs to step in and set things straight, Ikari. It's your "Freedom Without Limitations" ideal that has brought us to this point of having to go back all the way to the other end. The Founding Fathers set in motion a train without any brakes and now we're seeing the results of that as we approach the washed out bridge over the 1,000 foot deep gorge.




    Freedom without limits is like a sports car with no brakes, Ikari. It can only go in one direction, and eventually you lose the ability to steer the vehicle without causing a catastrophic accident. My Morality doesn't get in the way of your Freedom, but when your Freedom gets in the way of my Morality, I'm damn sure going to do everything in my power to get it the hell out of my way.




    Humanity is of no value when it is allowed to exist in an immoral state, Ikari. Assuming that you are correct in your ideal of what Freedom should be, then as abhorant as I find many of the ideals of the USSR, we would have been better off with them, or at least the Nazi's, being the main power in the world rather than the USA.
    I see and I assume you must have been one of the very first protestors to take a firm moral stand against lies, torture and war from the preceding presiduncial terms of Senor GWSnotForBrains. Correct me if I'm wrong.

  2. #82
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Without a doubt. I go back to my mother's own experiences.....

    She came home to Minnesota for Thanksgiving during her Freshman year in college to find that my mother's best friend had been thrown out of her own home by her parents for getting pregnant before being married. This girl's parents refused to even admit that they had a daughter.
    That's a bit unfortunate to decimate an individual like that because of mistakes made. Humans always make mistakes. I guess in the end I'll never understand the irrationalities of choosing slavery over freedom.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #83
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, that is why we instead work on the rights and liberties of the individual; not perceived morality which is floppy and changes from person to person. It's not the government's job to enforce "morality", but rather to protect and proliferate the innate and inalienable rights of the individual.
    Again, I have to whole-heartedly disagree. When society reaches a point where it cannot or will not enforce even the most basic of standards on its member then the Government has to step in and do that job for society. Any society which does not have even the most basic of morals/values codified into it has no worth to begin with; and that's the way the United States is heading at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's a fun ride though. Your morality MOST CERTAINLY gets in the way of my freedom. And when that comes to pass and you attempt to enforce your morality over me through government force, we have a problem. I will not sit idly back as you steal my freedom and spit on the sacrifices of so many who fought to obtain and keep it. Functional communism is not a good thing.
    No, it's not a fun ride. At least not for anyone who realizes that it's a quick trip to Hell. How does my Morality get in the way of your life each and every day? In most places and situations these days I have to go well out of my way to live within my own code of conduct. Try to find a male bank teller on a Saturday morning (the only time I have to go to the bank). Generally I end up visiting two if not all three branches before I can find one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Who sets that? You? Who made you god? Your idealism of Communism and Nazism and your seeming belief that it is superior to the never ending fight for freedom is sickening.
    Society sets it. Or at least it did for Centuries, until we got this ridiculous notion that somehow individuals were brighter than a couple thousand years worth of precedents. I idolize neither of those movements, but I find both of them to be preferable to the utter social anarchy that is the state of this country today.

  4. #84
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I see and I assume you must have been one of the very first protestors to take a firm moral stand against lies, torture and war from the preceding presiduncial terms of Senor GWSnotForBrains. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    No, I think for him it's more that morality is defined by the State and thus GWB and his wars cannot be immoral as they were initiated and demanded by State.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #85
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I see and I assume you must have been one of the very first protestors to take a firm moral stand against lies, torture and war from the preceding presiduncial terms of Senor GWSnotForBrains. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    LOL. The Moral thing to do would have been to CARPET NUKE the entire Middle/Near East on September 12, 2001. My issues with GWB were that he didn't go anywhere near far enough in what he did.

  6. #86
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Again, I have to whole-heartedly disagree. When society reaches a point where it cannot or will not enforce even the most basic of standards on its member then the Government has to step in and do that job for society. Any society which does not have even the most basic of morals/values codified into it has no worth to begin with; and that's the way the United States is heading at this point.
    The most basic of moral standards is the upholding and proliferation of the individual's rights and liberties. All else stems from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    No, it's not a fun ride. At least not for anyone who realizes that it's a quick trip to Hell. How does my Morality get in the way of your life each and every day? In most places and situations these days I have to go well out of my way to live within my own code of conduct. Try to find a male bank teller on a Saturday morning (the only time I have to go to the bank). Generally I end up visiting two if not all three branches before I can find one.
    Rather die on my feet than live on my knees.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Society sets it. Or at least it did for Centuries, until we got this ridiculous notion that somehow individuals were brighter than a couple thousand years worth of precedents. I idolize neither of those movements, but I find both of them to be preferable to the utter social anarchy that is the state of this country today.
    Society has no rights and cannot act against the rights of the individual. One of the most basic reasons for government in general.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #87
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's a bit unfortunate to decimate an individual like that because of mistakes made. Humans always make mistakes. I guess in the end I'll never understand the irrationalities of choosing slavery over freedom.
    She knew what the rules were in that home. She chose to ignore them. She got tossed out on her ass. Really simple logic there, Ikari. Don't do the Crime, if you can't do the Time.

  8. #88
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The most basic of moral standards is the upholding and proliferation of the individual's rights and liberties. All else stems from that.
    I completely and totally disagree. The most basic standard is called ORDER. Not even Law & Order, but simply Order itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Rather die on my feet than live on my knees.
    Your proposal has been found 100% acceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Society has no rights and cannot act against the rights of the individual. One of the most basic reasons for government in general.
    Which is why ours is falling apart.... because society is no longer allowed to dictate the acceptable limits of individual behavior. This has lead to social anarchy and the destruction of the foundations of this nation and our entire species.

  9. #89
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    She knew what the rules were in that home. She chose to ignore them. She got tossed out on her ass. Really simple logic there, Ikari. Don't do the Crime, if you can't do the Time.
    Punishment must fit the crime though. We are not such a barbaric society as to demand outrageous punishment and decimation for small "crime". As I said, I don't think I'll ever understand the irrationalities of those who wish to live as slave.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #90
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I think for him it's more that morality is defined by the State and thus GWB and his wars cannot be immoral as they were initiated and demanded by State.
    NO. It's defined in this case by a very simple set of ideals.... "Do not ever start a fight you are not both willing and capable of winning. Do not ever own a weapon you are not willing to use. Sometimes you just have to make an example of somebody to make sure the others get the point."

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