View Poll Results: If the mayor evicts you, would you leave?

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  • I would leave the park.

    17 60.71%
  • I would refuse to leave the park.

    11 39.29%
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Thread: Would you leave the park?

  1. #61
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The purpose of law is to protect and proliferate the rights and liberties of the individual.
    I could not disagree more, Ikari. The purpose of Law is to ensure that society continues to exist within its appropriate limits and to SEVERELY PUNISH those who cannot or will not live within those limits.

  2. #62
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I could not disagree more, Ikari. The purpose of Law is to ensure that society continues to exist within its appropriate limits and to SEVERELY PUNISH those who cannot or will not live within those limits.
    You can disagree all you want; but OUR Republic was initially built on the philosophy I have espoused. Your philosophy is more like Stalin or Mao. Between the two, I'll go my route thank you very much. History has shown time and time again the atrocities committed through government; even against their own people.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #63
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You can disagree all you want; but OUR Republic was initially built on the philosophy I have espoused. Your philosophy is more like Stalin or Mao. Between the two, I'll go my route thank you very much. History has shown time and time again the atrocities committed through government; even against their own people.
    Yes, my philosophy is much more Authoritarian in nature. It's what we need right now, and much closer to what our forefathers believed in than you'd like to admit. Go and take a look into the history books at what the legal and justice systems were like in those colonies. Or you could just read "The Scarlet Letter" and save yourself the time. Our current system is a JOKE and a FARCE. It has been for decades and I don't see it changing for the better any time soon.

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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    It looked to me like someone did sic the dogs on Martin, even though he played by their rules.
    Attachment 67118243

    And water hoses as well.

    Attachment 67118242

    While I agree OWS doesn't have nearly as clear a message as King did, the right to free assembly does not hinge on that premise.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  5. #65
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Yes, my philosophy is much more Authoritarian in nature. It's what we need right now, and much closer to what our forefathers believed in than you'd like to admit. Go and take a look into the history books at what the legal and justice systems were like in those colonies. Or you could just read "The Scarlet Letter" and save yourself the time. Our current system is a JOKE and a FARCE. It has been for decades and I don't see it changing for the better any time soon.
    I've read a lot of the founders and the classical liberal philosophy many followed. There are some founders who may have been a bit more authoritarian, but many were not. Many were SUSPICIOUS of government, not championing it. It is why we made a Republic, it is why our government is divided into 3 parts and set up to fight each other. If I have to choose between Jefferson and Mao, I'm going Jefferson. I'd rather our end come from too much freedom than a lack of it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #66
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I've read a lot of the founders and the classical liberal philosophy many followed. There are some founders who may have been a bit more authoritarian, but many were not. Many were SUSPICIOUS of government, not championing it. It is why we made a Republic, it is why our government is divided into 3 parts and set up to fight each other.
    You're missing one major difference between then and now.... When's the last time you saw a family in the 20th-21st Century DISOWN a member for failing to live a properly moral and decent life? When's the last time you saw a community SHUN an individual who refuses to get in line? In the past moral issues were dealt with by SOCIETY. Society no longer does that job, so it falls to the only other group capable of keeping people in line... the Government.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If I have to choose between Jefferson and Mao, I'm going Jefferson. I'd rather our end come from too much freedom than a lack of it.
    As you know, I'm not a big believer in unbridled freedom. I never have been and never will be.

  7. #67
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    You're missing one major difference between then and now.... When's the last time you saw a family in the 20th-21st Century DISOWN a member for failing to live a properly moral and decent life? When's the last time you saw a community SHUN an individual who refuses to get in line? In the past moral issues were dealt with by SOCIETY. Society no longer does that job, so it falls to the only other group capable of keeping people in line... the Government.
    Society should make no moral decisions and itself has no rights. What "job" is it supposed to have been doing? It doesn't matter if it's the 21st century or the 31st century or the 11th century; rights are rights and they must be upheld. Time does not change rights, nor should it change our commitment to uphold them. Free is the only way to live. It may be tough, it may have consequences we do not like; but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    As you know, I'm not a big believer in unbridled freedom. I never have been and never will be.
    And I've never seen any wisdom is unbridled government control over the People. In the end, the difference in philosophy is a difference in desire. I want the human, which means the free thinker, the individual complete with emotion and desire. You want the machine, the ordered cog which fits nicely into its spot and spins around, spinning other cogs; all cogs functioning efficiently together. But between machine and man, I'll take man.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #68
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Society should make no moral decisions and itself has no rights. What "job" is it supposed to have been doing? It doesn't matter if it's the 21st century or the 31st century or the 11th century; rights are rights and they must be upheld. Time does not change rights, nor should it change our commitment to uphold them. Free is the only way to live. It may be tough, it may have consequences we do not like; but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
    The job it WAS doing in the 11th Century and that I hope it will be doing again in the 31st Century, and that is has stopped doing in the 21st Century.... placing proper limitations and restraints on individuals. Remember, I'm not a very big believer in the idea of "Rights" at all, Ikari. I never have been and very likely never will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And I've never seen any wisdom is unbridled government control over the People. In the end, the difference in philosophy is a difference in desire. I want the human, which means the free thinker, the individual complete with emotion and desire. You want the machine, the ordered cog which fits nicely into its spot and spins around, spinning other cogs; all cogs functioning efficiently together. But between machine and man, I'll take man.
    I'll take the machine. The machine is reliable, dependable, and does what it is supposed to, when it is supposed to. You don't end up waiting 2 hours for the machine to pick you up because it decided to stay in bed that morning. The machine doesn't decide it h as better things to do than what it is supposed to do. It doesn't decide "I don't want to....". It simply does what it is intended to do, unerringly and without variance.

  9. #69
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    The job it WAS doing in the 11th Century and that I hope it will be doing again in the 31st Century, and that is has stopped doing in the 21st Century.... placing proper limitations and restraints on individuals. Remember, I'm not a very big believer in the idea of "Rights" at all, Ikari. I never have been and very likely never will be.
    Of course your not, rights empower the individual over the government. And a cog seeker would not want that. Nothing can challenge the power of government, yes? It's very much within the functional practice of communist regimes. They all do the same thing. Nothing above the State. But you're asking me to accept a system which apparently costs about half your population to install, and then subjugates the rest for all time. Beholden to the whims of government in some form of disguised "efficiency" argument.

    We were meant to become freer with time, and that is the direction I wish to go. Being a slave isn't a good path and will not lead to good things. The real problem isn't that you choose to become a slave, but more that you wish to force slavery onto ME as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I'll take the machine. The machine is reliable, dependable, and does what it is supposed to, when it is supposed to. You don't end up waiting 2 hours for the machine to pick you up because it decided to stay in bed that morning. The machine doesn't decide it h as better things to do than what it is supposed to do. It doesn't decide "I don't want to....". It simply does what it is intended to do, unerringly and without variance.
    Of course you'll take the machine, and in the process destroy our humanity. You don't see humans for human, you see pieces to fit in to other places, pieces to dominate and control and make obey your whim. In short, I'm the USA and you're the USSR.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #70
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    Re: Would you leave the park?

    If I thought they were working towards a common good of any sort, I would say they should stay. But the occupy movements remain stagnant and have really not even put a dent into anything they want to "change". They can't even come up with a proper message. Why bother continuing to waste public resources and live in squalor for a cause that is going no where? They need to come up with a reasonable message and stick to it.

    *Edit: So, what I am saying is, if they could gather a proper message I would stay, but as it sits in this mess where no one even really knows why they are sitting there... what's the point?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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