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Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?


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And, the indians believed Europeans were too weak to survive in North America.

There's a feeling of superiority in every culture.

Of course there is.

It still exists today in many parts of the world.
 
What baloney. And you say this and then depart without offering any evidence to support your claim.

Those of us with a significant amount of common sense understand this without having to see any evidence.
 
Touche'

But, I still believe that the actual movement to make blacks a permanent under-class was started by the Progressives, when they saw the political power to be gained.

Way to big a conspiracy theory for it to even be plausible, but hey that's my story and I am sticking to it.
 
So were Native Americans.
Yeah, I know and they were considered inferior as well.

In these days... anyone without a religious belief in god was considered a savage....... You'll have to do better than this.
Yeah, I know which is why early Virginia slave codes held that any non-Christian foreigner could be held as a slave. And the non-Christianity of blacks (and Native Americans) was one of the main reasons why both groups were considered inferior, particularly as most whites had some theistic/Christian belief. Thank you for further substantiating my claim.

Im sure you have some proof of this... lol..
LOL.

Cuvier
The white race, with oval face, straight hair and nose, to which the civilised people of Europe belong and which appear to us the most beautiful of all, is also superior to others by its genius, courage and activity. [...] The Negro race... is marked by black complexion, crisped of woolly hair, compressed cranium and a flat nose, The projection of the lower parts of the face, and the thick lips, evidently approximate it to the monkey tribe: the hordes of which it consists have always remained in the most complete state of barbarism.[12]

Meiners
Meiners split mankind into two divisions, which he labelled the "beautiful White race" and the "ugly Black race". [...] He said that the dark ugly peoples were distinct from the white beautiful peoples by their "sad" lack of virtue and their "terrible vices".

More
Scientific racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
You don't think religion had nothing to do with it?

Religion is a driving factor in how folks were treated hundreds of years ago..... as well as race.
Uh, yeah, religion has something to do with it. The non-Christianity of blacks was one of the reasons they, as a "race", were considered inferior.
 
Way to big a conspiracy theory for it to even be plausible, but hey that's my story and I am sticking to it.

I don't think it was a consiracy, but more like something that started out small and snowballed from there, growing into the modern day civil rights industry.
 
Uh, yeah, religion has something to do with it. The non-Christianity of blacks was one of the reasons they, as a "race", were considered inferior.

OMG!! :lamo

...................
 
I don't agree. I'm of the opinion that the effort to make blacks a permanent under-class in America didn't start until the NAACP was formed.

So we are suppose to believe that slavery had nothing to do with making African Americans a permanent under class.

And once that bitter pill is swallowed we are then suppose to believe that Jim Crow which resulted from the withdrawal of troops from the south after the corrupt bargain of the Hayes-Tilden election had nothing to do with that either.

And if you can stomach all that then we are really suppose to suspend disbelief and accept that Plessey v. Ferguson had nothing to do with that either.

And if you can absorb all that nonsense and still retain doubt, then the terrorism of the Ku Klux Klan had nothing to do with keeping African Americans as a permanent under class either.

Good thing the historical record is there to show all those things for what they are.
 
You both keep trying to either take race completely out the equation or say that race only entered the equation later. This just isn't true. Africans were being called savages, inferior and many other derogatory names since the beginning of the slave trade. The main theories of science during the entire history of slavery were about the inferiority of blacks/Africans. Obviously factors other than race were a part of the story, but race was always a part of it and it increased over time.

It was used as a justification, but nobody ever said "Hey, black people are inferior, let's enslave them."

They got their slaves where they were available, and then justified it.
 
Those of us with a significant amount of common sense understand this without having to see any evidence.

Sure thing .... "common sense" is what you all claim when you have no evidence to use. ANd shortly after the "common sense" card is played and is showed to be utter nonsense, out will come the "logic" card as sure as a bad case of diarrhea follows a bad burrito. And then when even that swirls down the toilet, it will be the tried and trite "its common knowledge".

Amazing. Or it would be in an actual debate. Here its just more of what is expected since we have seen these lame tactics again and again and again when the actual historical records leaves you blind in a dark room.
 
They got their slaves where they were available, and then justified it.

Exactly.

Cheap Labor was their motivator.... not racial hatred.....

Just like in today's agriculture.... Cheap labor just happens to be provided by Latin American Hispanics willing to work for dirt cheap. It almost hast to be like this.

Could you imagine if farm labor was paid 15-20 bucks an hour?

The cost of food would skyrocket, and people would bitch about starving.
 
And the point still went over your head. You should be super embarrassed right now. Like I said, several people have made the same point and it's already been handled and dealt with several times by several posters. Look for the answers to your nonsense with the search function. Hint 2: This thread is about the Confederate Flag as it pertains to the current United States.

Dude you are ridiculous. That was my ****ing intitial point... as it pertains to the current United States. That is NOT the current debate though as brought up by Caine. That is about the comparison between the two flags.

You won't even stick to the point about your own comments. When shown to be ridiculous you change the topic. Dealing with you further? Waste of time.
 
It was used as a justification, but nobody ever said "Hey, black people are inferior, let's enslave them."

They got their slaves where they were available, and then justified it.
Meh, I disagree. I've learned that it was more like "Hey, Africans are cheap, inferior, conveniently located and physically able to handle the labor, let's enslave them". You and Caine are trying to reduce slavery and it's start to money alone and that simplification is wrong.
 
Meh, I disagree. I've learned that it was more like "Hey, Africans are cheap, inferior, conveniently located and physically able to handle the labor, let's enslave them". You and Caine are trying to reduce slavery and it's start to money alone and that simplification is wrong.

Slavery WAS about money.

Cheap labor maximizes profits.

The cheaper the labor, the higher the profits.
 
Yes and no. Yes, America was founded as a nation run by white male property owners (and we broke away from one who did the same). But that wasn't the reason that America was founded. The Confederacy was formed with the primary objective of continuing a slavery-based economy.

I agree... my only point in agreeing with Caine was that the Colonies were racist to it's core, practicing slavery and acting treasonous towards mother country: England. I am not saying that they were exactly the same and I never have.

Which is why I agreed with an earlier post that the South needs a new flag to stand for not pride and not prejudice. Honestly, if it weren't for the damn prejudice, the South can be a pretty cool place. (Well not in the summer time. ;))

Hot and sweaty as Hades... yeah. I agree again. They should get a new flag. I don't think that that means that many Southerners and many people can't honestly view the Confederate Flag as a non-racist non-slavery wanting non-treasonous symbol of pride for their heritage. I am Scottish in lineage and have our clan colors and pattern and love it. I am not upset that my clan attacked and killed other clans not do I view the American Flag as one of genocide even thoug htat is what our government did to the Native Americans. In short, I am not short-sighted into political correct diologue as at least one person here is extremely guilty of.

What gets me about people who fly the Confederate flag is not so much that they may be supporting racism, or maybe even slavery or treason. What gets me is that by flying that flag, they're making light of all of that. They're making light of all the brave men who shed blood to keep this nation whole. They're making light of the fact that eleven states betrayed their loyalty to the United States of America. And they're making light that that flag stood for an all-out defense of an oppressive, racist institution. THAT is why I hate the Confederate flag.

That is fine. I don't disagree that this view is valid. I accept and respect your opinion. I simply think that there are other valid ways of looking at it as well...
 
Slavery WAS about money.

Cheap labor maximizes profits.

The cheaper the labor, the higher the profits.

Also many of a fortune was tied up in slaves as a capital investment.
 
So we are suppose to believe that slavery had nothing to do with making African Americans a permanent under class.

And once that bitter pill is swallowed we are then suppose to believe that Jim Crow which resulted from the withdrawal of troops from the south after the corrupt bargain of the Hayes-Tilden election had nothing to do with that either.

And if you can stomach all that then we are really suppose to suspend disbelief and accept that Plessey v. Ferguson had nothing to do with that either.

Three highly intelligent and well informed posters ust explained to you why it didn't. Unless you're suggesting that black folks are too weak minded to get past slavery. Not sure what you're getting at, so you may want to explain yourself, before your racist side is exposed for all to see.


And if you can absorb all that nonsense and still retain doubt, then the terrorism of the Ku Klux Klan had nothing to do with keeping African Americans as a permanent under class either.

Good thing the historical record is there to show all those things for what they are.

Did I say anything about the KKK? But, while we're on the subject, let me remind you of the speech, on eugenics, that Margaret Sanger gave at a klan rally. You know her; famous Progressive; founder of Planned Parenhood.

Oh, BTW, the rally was held in...New Jersey! Thought I would point that out, before you automatically assumed that it took place in the South, which I'm sure was only seconds away.
 
Dude you are ridiculous.
Not really, but since it's clear you aren't getting the hints as to why you're post has nothing to do with this thread, I'll just post my original response to the same point brought up by someone who brought it up much earlier than you did (and who was also much more respectful than you are).

I agree that the American flag is treasonous, which is why, had the US not won, it would be a symbol of treason if it were flown in Britain. I am not making an argument about treason in and of itself. I'm making an argument about flying a treasonous flag WITHIN the state that the treason was committed against and the irony/stupidity of that phenomenon.

It's the same with your comment. Yes, the American and Confederate flags were flown by states with similar histories. Both had slavery, treason, racism, etc. But the American flag does not represent treason against America and it does not represent a group fighting for an economy, rights, etc. that revolved around slavery so the fact that you keep bringning up the similarities as if they mean something shows, again, that all the discussions in this thread have flown straight over your head.

Please go away now. You're only a hot headed distraction.
 
Actually, Caine's got a point, but he didn't really make it.

Racism was an artificial construct that was put on after the fact. The absolute worst thing that could have happened to Southern elites would be if poor whites ever realized they had more in common with slaves than with the planters. So they started spreading the idea that blacks were racially inferior.

Originally in Europe, slaves came from Eastern Europe. Thus the similarity between the word "slave" and the word "slav." When Turks took control of the Bosphorus straits, it cut off the Black Sea slave trade. So they turned to Africa.

And if I remember correctly it was the super white Vikings that travelled down the Eastern European rivers and enslaved the Slavs...
 
Meh, I disagree. I've learned that it was more like "Hey, Africans are cheap, inferior, conveniently located and physically able to handle the labor, let's enslave them". You and Caine are trying to reduce slavery and it's start to money alone and that simplification is wrong.

That's exactly what they said. The disconnect takes place when you assume that they said all that because they were black.

They would have said the same ****, if they had been white.
 
Facts? No. That crap? Oh hell-to-the-yeah! :lamo
So are you trying to argue that early Americans didn't find non-Christians savage? I like debating with you apdst. It's the easiest thing I've had to do all day and all I've done today is eat.
 
Slavery WAS about money.

Cheap labor maximizes profits.

The cheaper the labor, the higher the profits.
Yeah, I know. I said that in my first response to you. We're talking about who was chosen to be slaves.
 
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