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Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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99percenter said:
Exactly, I wonder how people fail to see the distinction. Maybe they are part of the latter group you described and are highly offended.
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When you use a derogatory term to refer to an entire culture of people, thats ****ing racism!
 
FluffyNinja said:
They knew this how? Consulted the Stars? Better yet, I would sincerely, like for you to PROVE to me how YOU know, which future events the Founders were predicting 223 years ago. I'm going to sit back, this should be good! :thumbs:
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All of them acknowledged slavery was immoral.
George Washington: "there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it."

—Letter to Morris, April 12, 1786, in George Washington, A Collection, ed. W.B. Allen (Indianapolis: Liberty Classics, 1989), 319.


John Adams: "Every measure of prudence, therefore, ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of slavery from the United States…. I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in …abhorrence."

—Letter to Evans, June 8, 1819, in Selected Writings of John and John Quincy Adams ed. Adrienne Koch et al. (New York: Knopf, 1946), 209-10.


Benjamin Franklin: "Slavery is …an atrocious debasement of human nature."

—"An Address to the Public from the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery" (1789), Benjamin Franklin, Writings ed. J.A. Leo Lemay (New York: Library of America, 1987), 1154.


Alexander Hamilton: "The laws of certain states …give an ownership in the service of negroes as personal property…. But being men, by the laws of God and nature, they were capable of acquiring liberty—and when the captor in war …thought fit to give them liberty, the gift was not only valid, but irrevocable."

—Philo Camillus no. 2 (1795), in Papers of Alexander Hamilton, ed. Harold C. Syrett (New York: Columbia University Press, 1961-), 19:101-2.


James Madison: "We have seen the mere distinction of colour made in the most enlightened period of time, a ground of the most oppressive dominion ever exercised by man over man."

—Speech at Constitutional Convention, June 6, 1787, in Max Farrand, ed., Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1937), 1:135.

The Founding Fathers and Slavery (Founding Fathers) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Washington’s act of manumission implied that he could envision a biracial United States where both blacks and whites might live together as free people.
 
haymarket said:
I have seen gross ignorance in spades on this site. One poster claimed he would offer proof that all eleven confederate states held state wide votes on secession along with an additional three border states as well. he could only come up with a tiny three and was left looking rather foolish. Same poster offered the lunatic ranting of some convicted killer in prison for first degree murder that was published on Aryan and white supremacy sites because even wikipedia would not let the crap pollute their site.

Now that is ignorance supreme. :lamo:mrgreen::lamo
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And, there were statewide votes, either in the form of a referendum, or special elections for conentions. Why is that so hard for some folks figure out?
 
Thunder said:
why do you deny that slavery was the main cause of the South's secession?
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Because, realistically, there around FIVE MAIN reasons why citizens of the Southern States favored Secession and slavery was simply ONE of them. And please, don't respond by posting hyperlinks to Secessionst Documents filed by individual states, I am more than familiar with these.

The REAL point here is, the average Southerer didn't (couldn't have) read these Secessionist Papers, Southern Senators used slavery as the focal point of many of these papers for obvious reasons..........(1) Because of the economic
importance of slavery to the entire USA, (2) Because this was the political "hot topic" of the day and, (3) This was the ONE issue that Abolitionist Senators from the North would never compromise on.........You see, the South wanted Separation.....they did not want further attempts at compromise. They'd seen how well, that'd worked out in Kansas and Missouri.
 
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99percenter said:
All of them acknowledged slavery was immoral.
George Washington: "there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it."

—Letter to Morris, April 12, 1786, in George Washington, A Collection, ed. W.B. Allen (Indianapolis: Liberty Classics, 1989), 319.


John Adams: "Every measure of prudence, therefore, ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of slavery from the United States…. I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in …abhorrence."

—Letter to Evans, June 8, 1819, in Selected Writings of John and John Quincy Adams ed. Adrienne Koch et al. (New York: Knopf, 1946), 209-10.


Benjamin Franklin: "Slavery is …an atrocious debasement of human nature."

—"An Address to the Public from the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery" (1789), Benjamin Franklin, Writings ed. J.A. Leo Lemay (New York: Library of America, 1987), 1154.


Alexander Hamilton: "The laws of certain states …give an ownership in the service of negroes as personal property…. But being men, by the laws of God and nature, they were capable of acquiring liberty—and when the captor in war …thought fit to give them liberty, the gift was not only valid, but irrevocable."

—Philo Camillus no. 2 (1795), in Papers of Alexander Hamilton, ed. Harold C. Syrett (New York: Columbia University Press, 1961-), 19:101-2.


James Madison: "We have seen the mere distinction of colour made in the most enlightened period of time, a ground of the most oppressive dominion ever exercised by man over man."

—Speech at Constitutional Convention, June 6, 1787, in Max Farrand, ed., Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1937), 1:135.

The Founding Fathers and Slavery (Founding Fathers) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Washington’s act of manumission implied that he could envision a biracial United States where both blacks and whites might live together as free people.
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So did Robert E. Lee, Thomas Jackson, James Longstreet and Patrick Cleburne.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Because, realistically, there around FIVE MAIN reasons why citizens of the Southern States favored Secession and slavery was simply ONE of them.....
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ok, you claim slavery was issue #1.

what were the other four issues that had nothing to do with slavery?
 
dealing with the slavery issue at our countries inception did happen, just not "officially". ( actually it was in 1790, but close enough )

keeping slavery around, and protecting it, was an agreement reached in return for the newly formed federal government getting help from the southern states to pay war debt.

it was the grand bargain for assumption.
 
99percenter said:
All of them acknowledged slavery was immoral.
George Washington: "there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it."

—Letter to Morris, April 12, 1786, in George Washington, A Collection, ed. W.B. Allen (Indianapolis: Liberty Classics, 1989), 319.


John Adams: "Every measure of prudence, therefore, ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of slavery from the United States…. I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in …abhorrence."

—Letter to Evans, June 8, 1819, in Selected Writings of John and John Quincy Adams ed. Adrienne Koch et al. (New York: Knopf, 1946), 209-10.


Benjamin Franklin: "Slavery is …an atrocious debasement of human nature."

—"An Address to the Public from the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery" (1789), Benjamin Franklin, Writings ed. J.A. Leo Lemay (New York: Library of America, 1987), 1154.


Alexander Hamilton: "The laws of certain states …give an ownership in the service of negroes as personal property…. But being men, by the laws of God and nature, they were capable of acquiring liberty—and when the captor in war …thought fit to give them liberty, the gift was not only valid, but irrevocable."

—Philo Camillus no. 2 (1795), in Papers of Alexander Hamilton, ed. Harold C. Syrett (New York: Columbia University Press, 1961-), 19:101-2.


James Madison: "We have seen the mere distinction of colour made in the most enlightened period of time, a ground of the most oppressive dominion ever exercised by man over man."

—Speech at Constitutional Convention, June 6, 1787, in Max Farrand, ed., Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1937), 1:135.

The Founding Fathers and Slavery (Founding Fathers) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Washington’s act of manumission implied that he could envision a biracial United States where both blacks and whites might live together as free people.
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Okay great. So how do any of these statements PROVE that the Founders KNEW that slavery would eventually end? It simply shows that several of them felt that the institution was immoral. Two of the Founders you quote above were slave owners.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Okay great. So how do any of these statements PROVE that the Founders KNEW that slavery would eventually end? It simply shows that several of them felt that the institution was immoral. Two of the Founders you quote above were slave owners.
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Read the bolded part.
 
Thunder said:
ok, you claim slavery was issue #1.

what were the other four issues that had nothing to do with slavery?
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Don't misquote me. I did not say that it was #1,,,,,,just one of FIVE, which were all equally important to the average Southerner.
The other four reasons being: (1) the tariff (2) location of the trans-continental railroad (3) states rights and organization of the western territories and perhaps the single-most important and immediate cause of Secession (4) the election of Abraham Lincoln.
 
Thunder said:
really? how did they react when the CSA threatened to enslave any black POWs caught in battle?
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Those men petitioned the Confederate Congress to abolish slavery.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Yes, I read where the word "IMPLIED" was also in bold. So, this is your "proof".....laughable. :lol:
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no, what is laughable is your denial of the significant role slavery played in the South's decision to secede. I call it historical revisionism.
 
FluffyNinja said:
...The other four reasons being: (1) the tariff (2) location of the trans-continental railroad (3) states rights and organization of the western territories and perhaps the single-most important and immediate cause of Secession (4) the election of Abraham Lincoln.
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states' rights....to own slaves????

and why was the election of Lincoln such a problem? slavery.
 
Thunder said:
states' rights....to own slaves????

and why was the election of Lincoln such a problem? slavery.
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Lincoln said that if he could preserve the union, he would leave slavery intact.
 
apdst said:
Lincoln said that if he could preserve the union, he would leave slavery intact.
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before his election????????????????

did the CSA negotiate with Lincoln to preserve the Union...but keep slavery?
 
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FluffyNinja said:
Hey Haymarket. Which state had the largest number of sworn/registered KKK members between 1880 and 1950? Better yet, how many Southern States do you believe are even in the top 10? Look it up, or do you have an aversion for truth as well? Or would you prefer that I just answer for you?
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Are we Trivial Pursuit: Special Y'all Edition?
 
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