View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #961
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    From the northern POV it was a United States fort on United States soil.

    My comment was in reply to the farce of "the South wasn't looking for a fight." They didn't want a fight, so they moved their cannons into a position where they could fire on Ft. Sumter....it just doesn't follow logically. Even if they were moving into a position where they could defend themselves, they obviously saw that a fight would be necessary.
    I suggest you get educated....

    Battle of Fort Sumter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Of course... you could just attack the writing since its Wikipedia and anyone can write there.... but I see no disputation of it, and no lack of citations or any of that....
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Oh yes it is.
    Oh, no it's not. Any reference to black that uses any term other than African American is automatically deemed as racist by the Libbos.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Can we legally build a US army fort in the middle of The People's Republic of China and then occupy it without their consent? Why weren't the Dutch, Spanish and British allowed to keep and occupy their forts within US territory after the US was formed and our boundaries established? Do you realize how absurd your argument here is?
    Your history is way off here. You realize that we had to fight a war to get rid of the British, right? The Dutch and Spanish were long gone from the original 13 states before the Revolution. The other territory was added by purchase (from France and Spain), war (with Mexico), and treaty (with the British in Oregon). At no point did any of these powers keep or occupy a fort after that point.

    If we had a fort in the middle of China that pre-existed the current government there, that would be applicable. If you want an actual example, look at Guantanamo Bay. We had the fort before Castro took power. Would he like it back? Sure, but he isn't going to get it by asking.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    when someone claims that ALL the states of the CSA had a referendum on secession, but in reality only three states did so, that is a big deal.....not splitting hairs.
    You claimed that the Confederate states didn't use the democratic process to decide on secession. I proved you wrong, with a smack-down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I know what Jefferson Davis said. That guy was a bigger liar than Nixon. Truthfully, I don't trust what any politician says. Basically, no matter what Jeff Davis, Lee, or some random ex-Senator said, they were all playing the age old game of politicians covering their asses.

    What did South Carolina think when they brought their cannons to within range of Ft. Sumter? It was a nice place to picnic?
    Nice dodge. So, is your contention that the original intent of the Confederacy was to invade the Union? You sure you wanna go down this road? All you have offered thus far is "they probably didn't mean what they said because they were politicians......." or some such nonsense. I will provide many quotes from Confederate leaders and show where on at least four occasions, Davis attempted to send emissaries to Washington to negotiate a "peaceful separation" and said emissaries were turned away by Lincoln and the Union. I have historical, documented FACT on my side. What you got player? A bunch of unsubstantiated suspicions? Go home rookie................ you're not ready for the "A" game yet.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I suggest you get educated....

    Battle of Fort Sumter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Of course... you could just attack the writing since its Wikipedia and anyone can write there.... but I see no disputation of it, and no lack of citations or any of that....
    What am I missing. The fort was there, South Carolina objected. First they "asked," but if anybody thought it would work they're extremely gullible. Then they tried starving them out, calculating that Lincoln wouldn't try to supply them. Then they fired.

    In fact, you should read that entry, it's quite illuminating:

    This debate ran alongside another discussion about how aggressively the installations—including Forts Sumter and Pickens—should be obtained. President Davis, like his counterpart in Washington, preferred that his side not be seen as the aggressor. Both sides believed that the first side to use force would lose precious political support in the border states, whose allegiance was undetermined;
    How aggressively the installations should be obtained. Not "should they be obtained agressively." They were also more worried about being the first side to use force, not worried about if force would be used. They knew force would be used. They weren't gullible enough to think that they could just walk away peacefully.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Your history is way off here. You realize that we had to fight a war to get rid of the British, right? The Dutch and Spanish were long gone from the original 13 states before the Revolution. The other territory was added by purchase (from France and Spain), war (with Mexico), and treaty (with the British in Oregon). At no point did any of these powers keep or occupy a fort after that point.

    If we had a fort in the middle of China that pre-existed the current government there, that would be applicable. If you want an actual example, look at Guantanamo Bay. We had the fort before Castro took power. Would he like it back? Sure, but he isn't going to get it by asking.
    Thanks for the History lesson genius Could anyone argue that Cuba does not have the legal right to demand the return of its territory? Does any nation on the planet have the legal right to ask the US to abandon our embassies within their borders and leave? Are those foreign embassies legally/technically US property? Was our base in the Philippines legally/technically US property? Why did we abandon it? By the way, in case you haven't figured it out, these questions are rhetorical......please spare me another one of your enlightening history lessons.

    Fact is, for four years the CSA fit all of the requirements of a sovereign nation and a soveriegn nation has the right to defend all property within its borders. Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not, and whether you believe it was treasonous or not is actually irrelevant.
    Incidentally, South Carolina was nothing more than British territory taken from the crown in a treasonous manner. Therefore, I suppose the British actually still had a right to occupy Fort Sumter in 1861, right?
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 11-18-11 at 02:00 AM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Nice dodge. So, is your contention that the original intent of the Confederacy was to invade the Union? You sure you wanna go down this road? All you have offered thus far is "they probably didn't mean what they said because they were politicians......." or some such nonsense. I will provide many quotes from Confederate leaders and show where on at least four occasions, Davis attempted to send emissaries to Washington to negotiate a "peaceful separation" and said emissaries were turned away by Lincoln and the Union. I have historical, documented FACT on my side. What you got player? A bunch of unsubstantiated suspicions? Go home rookie................ you're not ready for the "A" game yet.
    I guess if you're gullible enough to believe Jeff Davis, then fine. Confederate leaders...again, you believe them? How gullible are you?

    Think about it. They didn't intend to invade the Union, but they knew damn well that there would be force. If they didn't, then that's why they lost right there -- stupidity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  9. #969
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    From the northern POV it was a United States fort on United States soil.

    My comment was in reply to the farce of "the South wasn't looking for a fight." They didn't want a fight, so they moved their cannons into a position where they could fire on Ft. Sumter....it just doesn't follow logically. Even if they were moving into a position where they could defend themselves, they obviously saw that a fight would be necessary.
    They mounted cannons to bear on Fort Sumter, because Fort Sumter presented a threat to the people of South Carolina.

    If Iran stationed a missile boat, 12 miles off shore from New York city in international waters, armed with nuke tipped balistic missiles--well within their rights--do you think the United States is going to just sit back and do nothing? Of course we wouldn't. Neither did South Carolina.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I guess if you're gullible enough to believe Jeff Davis, then fine. Confederate leaders...again, you believe them? How gullible are you?

    Think about it. They didn't intend to invade the Union, but they knew damn well that there would be force. If they didn't, then that's why they lost right there -- stupidity.
    I believe documented historical evidence, of which you have provided zilch. If you can produce some real evidence that shows that the CSA planned all along to invade the Union, then I will do what most Historians do......compare yours to mine and side with the most convincing. But, until that happens (and it won't) I'll go with Davis' and Lee's documented words over your unsubstantiated, prejudicial, and biased suspicions.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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