View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #931
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    By progessive i mean ideologically. Both those guys were very progressive for there time. The republican party freed the slaves and gave them citizenship and voting rights. Now its the republican party that talks about secession and taking away civil rights in the name of states rights.
    No, what you mean is coincidentally.

    You dig what they did, so boom! they're magically a, "progressive".

    Margaret Sanger was a progressive. He gave us the Negro Project, which purported the genocide of blacks. FDR was a progressive, who gave us the American concentration camps. Jim Jones was a progressive and he gave us Jonestown.

    No, in reality, the history of the political Left Wing is so terrible and embarrassing, that ya'll try to latch onto anything that will shine a better light on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #932
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yes.

    There is a difference between being a racist, and not agreeing that we should have slaves.

    The issues aren't mutually exclusive.....

    Such simplistic views of the Civil War are so pathetic.
    So is every single person who has lived during times when women were discriminated against (including today) sexist? Because if everyone who lived during the 1850s was a racist, then this same standard should apply.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  3. #933
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So is every single person who has lived during times when women were discriminated against (including today) sexist? Because if everyone who lived during the 1850s was a racist, then this same standard should apply.
    So thats the skrawman you are going to build... okay..

    Lets get back to real debate then.... .

    What, specifically, was racist about the CSA that the USA was fighting?

    Slavery can't be an answer because slavery and racism are not mutually exclusive as it pertains to this particular era in history.

    Or are you another person who cannot view this time period in a historical perspective, deciding instead to apply modern social views to a time period 150 years ago?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  4. #934
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Rural whites. It's not applied to blacks.
    Oh yes it is.

  5. #935
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Ah, but the Confederacy didn't immediately leave, they had fought since the early 1800's for the Union to uphold it's constitutional duties in protecting equal trade amongst the states and fair application of tax law and other protections as part of the compact. The last option was to leave which the CSA did with heavy hearts. It's not as if the south just on a whim said "**** it, I'm done" there were detailed abuses from many decades prior. I'm also not saying the civil rights movement was exactly similar to the secession movement but some basic common values were shared.
    And while those who eventually formed the Confederacy remained in the Union, the comparison to MLK, the Tea Party and any other similar people and organizations was an accurate one. The minute they decided to form a new nation, the comparison ceases to be accurate.

    They left, MLK didn't. That's the difference. Again, if you don't acknowledge that difference, you don't acknowledge the arguments being made here.

  6. #936
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    And while those who eventually formed the Confederacy remained in the Union, the comparison to MLK, the Tea Party and any other similar people and organizations was an accurate one. The minute they decided to form a new nation, the comparison ceases to be accurate.

    They left, MLK didn't. That's the difference. Again, if you don't acknowledge that difference, you don't acknowledge the arguments being made here.
    MLK was starting to get traction with the Civil Rights movement, the TEA party has made some traction politically, and yet there are still groups to the extremes of the basic tenets of the ideology that do not claim the American heritage as readily as the former, such as the Black Panters, the Nation of Islam, Anarchists, some variatios of the libertarian movement etc.

    The southern states tried decorum, tried to remind the northern states that we were founded on a constitution of limited federal powers. A singular constitution that disbars the federal government from engaging in favoritism against any one of or group of states for any reason. The northern response was further encroachment. What then is a society to do? I am serious about that question, if there was no traction gained within the Civil Rights Movement or other movements what do you think the next step would have been?

    I will reiterate, while there are glaring differences between the movements there are core similarities that can easily be seen if you choose to look.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, the states that didn't have a referndum, held special elections to vote in a secession committee. Who do you think voted for those committees?

    Use whatever semantics you choose, but the people of each state had a say in secession....
    no, sorry. YOU said that ALL the states of the CSA has a state-wide referendum on seccession.

    this is an outright lie. less than 50% of the CSA states had a referendum on seccession.

    just admit that you were wrong.

  8. #938
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    no, sorry. YOU said that ALL the states of the CSA has a state-wide referendum on seccession.

    this is an outright lie. less than 50% of the CSA states had a referendum on seccession.

    just admit that you were wrong.
    And where does splitting these hairs get you really?????

    When you are reduced to splitting hairs in a debate, you've failed.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  9. #939
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I will reiterate, while there are glaring differences between the movements there are core similarities that can easily be seen if you choose to look.
    I acknowledged those similarities in my post when I said, "And while those who eventually formed the Confederacy remained in the Union, the comparison to MLK, the Tea Party and any other similar people and organizations was an accurate one." I guess you ignored that and the rest of your post has nothing to do with my point. So since it's quite clear that you'd rather ignore what I've said than be honest, I'll make it simple.

    Here is the original post we're talking about:
    Quote Originally Posted by dumbasdirt View Post
    The way I see what you are saying is that anyone who fights against the American government is a traitor, so you think MLK was a traitor, the Black Panthers are traitors? In my opinion I think you don’t like the Confederate flag and you see what you want to see and the hell with everybody else.
    Nobody has argued that fighting against the American government is treason. We have argued that making war against the government and forming a new nation is treason. MLK and the Black Panthers did not do that. The Confederacy did. If you want to keep liking posts and making posts that distort our arguments, then by all means, continue your dishonesty, but know that I'll continue to call it out.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    And where does splitting these hairs get you really?????

    When you are reduced to splitting hairs in a debate, you've failed.
    when someone claims that ALL the states of the CSA had a referendum on secession, but in reality only three states did so, that is a big deal.....not splitting hairs.

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