View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #801
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    I am sure someone has said this already, but what flag are we talking about? The classic flag is a battle flag. Most people never take the time to figure that one out.

    Also I would like to say that if the CSA flag is treason, then so is the United States flag. We rebelled. I think it would be far better, or more accurate, to call it a flag of rebellion. I know this is semantics, but one could make the case that there is a legitmate cause behind seccession. Economic repression, political differences that cannot be compromised on. The roots to the Civil War had been sown at the end of the Revolutionary war. An Agragarian South pitted against an Industrial Power house in the North. So the Civil War was almost a neccessary evil. At that time people still viewed their home towns and states as more important than the Federal government.

    Anyway. Like I said. Rebellion. The cause was far to large to be considered treason. Maybe individuals could be considered treasonous? Not the movement. Of course what the flag represents depends on the person.
    1. Any flag that represents the Confederacy.
    2. The US flag is a flag of treason, I agree. The focus is on the Confederate flag because I wanted to talk about its relation to the United States specifically.
    3. There's definitely a case for claiming that secession was legitimate, I agree.
    4. I disagree that the movement wasn't treasonous. I've articulated my position too much to re-post it. But Texas v. White and Williams v. Bruffy explain my position quite well.

  2. #802
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    The debate isn't about the flag anymore. It is about whether secession is legal. I personally think its not because it is prohibited by our constitution. The opposition thinks that obedience to the constitution is optional.
    And your ilk doesn't?! :

  3. #803
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    This fort is smack dab in the middle of Charleston Harbor, in South Carolina, a state which legally seceded and was no longer a member of the United States. A sovereign state has the right to defend its own territory last time I checked.
    Yet another repeat of the same lie. Which still comes down to, "We want it, therefore it's ours."

    Interesting that you say a sovereign state has the right to defend it's territory...yet don't give that same right to the Union. It was United States property. As were many other things like post offices that the Confederacy stole. Oh wait, "appropriated."


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  4. #804
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Yet another repeat of the same lie. Which still comes down to, "We want it, therefore it's ours."

    Interesting that you say a sovereign state has the right to defend it's territory...yet don't give that same right to the Union. It was United States property. As were many other things like post offices that the Confederacy stole. Oh wait, "appropriated."
    exactly. Fort Sumter was Federal property, property that the CSA had zero regard for.

  5. #805
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. Any flag that represents the Confederacy.
    2. The US flag is a flag of treason, I agree. The focus is on the Confederate flag because I wanted to talk about its relation to the United States specifically.
    3. There's definitely a case for claiming that secession was legitimate, I agree.
    4. I disagree that the movement wasn't treasonous. I've articulated my position too much to re-post it. But Texas v. White and Williams v. Bruffy explain my position quite well.
    Well said. I just wanted to get my 2 cents in. I am clearly a US History and Civil War fan lol.

    Anyway. I have taken numerous classes on things like rebellion and terrorism and revolution. These are subjects of much scholarly debate. The definitions are very broad. I understand not wanting to articulate the point too often. I just feel that with a broad movement that "treason" is too small a word. Rebellion is a broader term, and I feel more relevant to the CSA or the USA. Hell the difference between rebellion and revolution is what? A victory? lol.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    England and France, for starters. Although, it's irrelevant.
    They never officially recognized the Confederacy. In fact, no foreign governments established diplomatic relations with the Confederacy.

    The Confederate government sent repeated delegations to Europe; historians give them low marks for their poor diplomacy.[61] James M. Mason went to London and John Slidell traveled to Paris, but neither was officially received. Each did succeed in holding unofficial private meetings with high British and French officials but neither secured official recognition for the Confederacy.
    Confederate States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Saying they recognized the Confederacy is, to say the least, revisionist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #807
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    why don't you just tell us.
    I have in at least 3 or 4 previous posts in this very thread, but sadly, some of you seem to have an aversion for the truth. The reason they were not tried for treason is that legally/constitutionally THEY COULD NOT BE FOUND GUILTY OF TREASON. Chief Justice Chase told both Lincoln and Andrew Johnson this. Chase also said that he believed, on a personal level, that Jefferson Davis and other Confederate leaders should be tried for treason, but could "find no Constitutional basis on which the Supreme Court could uphold such a conviction." The wording of the US Constitution simply DID NOT require a state to remain in the Union, nor did it prohibit a state from withdrawing from it.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    exactly. Fort Sumter was Federal property, property that the CSA had zero regard for.
    It ceased to be Federal property when the state of South Carolina seceded. According to your assertions I suppose that the city of San Antonio and the Alamo are still legally the property of Mexico, right?
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Southern women are easy. They probably consented.
    This is actually about the level of intellect which I would expect you to display. When losing a debate - resort to ad hominem attacks. That's sure to garner points for your side. Keep it up champ................ you're just making my job so much easier.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  10. #810
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Yet another repeat of the same lie. Which still comes down to, "We want it, therefore it's ours."
    No, actually it comes down to: "It's inside our borders, therefore it's ours and we have a right to occupy it and to defend it."

    Interesting that you say a sovereign state has the right to defend it's territory...yet don't give that same right to the Union. It was United States property. As were many other things like post offices that the Confederacy stole. Oh wait, "appropriated."
    A sovereign state has the right to occupy and to defend property within its own borders, which is exactly what South Carolina was doing. Which territory north of the Mason-Dixon line was the Union prevented from defending exactly?
    By the way, I'd like to appeal to your rational side for a moment here (if that side does indeed exist). Do you or any who share your position on this issue, actually, for one moment, believe that the Confederacy desired war with the Union? That this was their original intent? That they wanted to take on an opponent that was twice their size, had a population at least five times greater, was better equipped, had more railroads, more money,more resources, and a much larger manufacturing base? Before you answer, know that I can, and will provide direct (and verifiable) quotes from Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and any number of Southern Senators which will prove the contrary.
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 11-17-11 at 12:59 AM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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