View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #761
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    Can you cite the specific prohibition in the Constitution? Just curious
    Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:
    “ [The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes; ”

    Secession is clearly a violation of the commerce clause. None of the southern states can refuse to let congress regulate commerce. That is essentially what they did when the seceded.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    OK, that covers the original 13. AT which point in its history was Arkansas an independent nation that freely joined the Union? Most, if not all of it, was part of Louisiana Territory, which passed from French possession to the US. It was French territory, then American -- never independent.

    So how did Arkansas freely join the federation? For that matter, what about Iowa, North Dakota or Wyoming?
    Ever hear of territories and statehood conventions?
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #763
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:
    “ [The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes; ”

    Secession is clearly a violation of the commerce clause. None of the southern states can refuse to let congress regulate commerce. That is essentially what they did when the seceded.
    That seems like a stretch to me. Why is secession it a clear violation of this clause? How is regulating commerce "among the several States" a prohibition on secession? The term commerce was clearly defined both in the minds of the framers and today. No definition I am aware of relates commerce to a requirement to remain state.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I have a friend that directly contradicts this "all Southern people have the same culture" nonsense.
    Then he's not really your friend. He's also not really Southern. I know people who are Southern born and bred who don't like or identify with parts of Southern culture or perhaps any of it. However, they do recognize the fact that it exists. If you are born into it you can't deny it. So your "friend" is lying to you just to shut you the hell up, which I could understand, or he/she isn't actually Southern. In either case, you can't criticize what you don't understand. We fully realize that some people are foolish enough to do it anyway. That'd be you.


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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    That seems like a stretch to me. Why is secession it a clear violation of this clause? How is regulating commerce "among the several States" a prohibition on secession? The term commerce was clearly defined both in the minds of the framers and today. No definition I am aware of relates commerce to a requirement to remain state.
    Well. It is clearly unconstitutional. That's why a state has never managed to secede. How many states have been successful in leaving the union?

  6. #766
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Well. It is clearly unconstitutional. That's why a state has never managed to secede. How many states have been successful in leaving the union?
    I don't know of any that have tried since the Civil War, nor has any presented the case to the Supreme Court. There is nothing specific within the US Constitution that specifically rules leaving the Union as not an option. If anything the Constitution goes to great lengths to define the respective rights and powers of the individual States and the Federal Government (notice it is not the National Government). I would just speculate that if anything secession would be legally possible - though not easily accomplished - at a minimum for any of the original 13 states as they entered the Union from a state of individual independence, and I would include California and Texas as they two were independent political entities. The remaining states were effectively federal property at their origins and formed into states AFTER being part of the Union as territories, so their means and manner of entry proceeded from federal control to membership as states.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Then he's not really your friend. He's also not really Southern. I know people who are Southern born and bred who don't like or identify with parts of Southern culture or perhaps any of it. However, they do recognize the fact that it exists. If you are born into it you can't deny it. So your "friend" is lying to you just to shut you the hell up, which I could understand, or he/she isn't actually Southern. In either case, you can't criticize what you don't understand. We fully realize that some people are foolish enough to do it anyway. That'd be you.

    Yes, you have.
    If only any of this were true.

  8. #768
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    If only any of this were true.
    It is completely true.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    It's so funny how we fight over symbols.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    There is nothing specific within the US Constitution that specifically rules leaving the Union as not an option.
    The supreme court ruled that states cannot secede in Texas v. White in 1869.
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