View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

Voters
98. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    36 36.73%
  • No

    56 57.14%
  • I don't know.

    6 6.12%
Page 75 of 183 FirstFirst ... 2565737475767785125175 ... LastLast
Results 741 to 750 of 1824

Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #741
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,584

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    No, we didn't. Lincoln called the war a "civil war" meaning a war between members of the same country, throughout the war. I posted the quotes earlier in the thread. The Supreme Court I don't know because I haven't looked. The Union pretty much always th
    We're not even talking about what the war was called. Please, try and keep up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #742
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    I wasn't necessarily talking about the CSA. I am stating that leaving the union is not treason.
    I agree with that.

  3. #743
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Laramie, Wyoming
    Last Seen
    04-22-13 @ 04:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    221

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Okay, you guys are trolls. The end.
    oh don't be mad.

  4. #744
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We're not even talking about what the war was called. Please, try and keep up.
    No, you keep up. We were talking about who "had" Fort Sumter - or rightfully owned it. Lincoln's use of "civil war" illustrates his belief that the union rightfully owned that land because using "civil war" means that he did not acknowledge the existence of a separate country.

    I tried to write that in simple sentences for you. Did you get it?

  5. #745
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Free For All View Post
    oh don't be mad.
    how can I be mad at a troll?

  6. #746
    All Warm and Fuzzy
    FluffyNinja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Miss-uh-Sippie
    Last Seen
    10-21-17 @ 04:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    4,831

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    FIRST

    Whether or not the Confederates committed treason depends on which parts of the Constitution's definition of treason you look at. You are correct that secession specifically is not prohibited. However, levying war against the United States and forming a confederation is prohibited within it. The Confederate states did both.

    You have directed me to the Supreme Court as proof that the Confederate states did not commit treason and since your direction implies that you respect the Supreme Court on this issue, I will direct you to the same place, specifically the case of Sprott vs. United States.
    The case you reference was heard in 1874, thirteen years after the act of secession was committed and nine years after Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase declared to President Lincoln that the Supreme Court could never uphold a treason conviction for any Confederate based on the fact that there was NOTHING in the Constitution at the time which made Secession illegal. As far as "taking up arms" is concerned, it was the US that launched an invasion of the CSA thus provoking the insuing war, this is irrefutable. Your premise here, regarding this 1874 decision, is supported quite flimsily by the remarks of one justice in a case which stemmed from a lawsuit initiated by a Southerner regarding lack of compensation for seized cotton. This was not a Declaration of treason against the Confederates. If it were, then why was no one put on trial?


    SECOND

    One could argue that they levied war and formed a confederation as a separate entity and therefore, did not commit treason, but for that argument, I direct you to the Supreme Court again, specifically the case of Williams v. Bruffy:



    To confirm this point of view, I also direct you to one Chief Justice Chase's own cases - Texas v. White:
    First allow me to correct your biggest inconsistency in this statement: The Confederation was formed FIRST. THEN war insued. Placing these into the correct chronology then causes us to beg the question: "Which side initiated the war?" Claiming that the Confederacy was formed with the sole purpose of waging war against the United States is simply fallacious and could/would not have held up under legal scrutiny.

    Regarding Williams vs. Bruffy which was decided sixteen years AFTER Secession; it's sole function
    was to nullify all laws, and "legal" property rights which had been established by the CSA during the war years. It served to basically, return legal jurisdiction to the Constitution and to the United States government. Most view this case as simply procedural when a conquering nation wishes to incorporate (or in this case, reincorporate) territory gained.

    THIRD

    You have offered the pardon of Confederate leaders as proof that treason was not committed. However, I direct you to Lincoln's proclamation of these pardons as proof that it was treason. In that proclamation, Lincoln declared:
    First, I never said anything about a pardon. My contention was that charges of treason against Confederates was never Constitutionally legal to begin with.

    Most historians and legal experts would agree that Lincoln's proclamation of amnesty was pointless and more for PR and political expediency. I've already pointed out to you that Lincoln was told by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court that charges of treason were not Constitutional in this case and would not stick. And this came from a Republican justice who had worked directly under Lincoln at one point.

    Oh, and in reference to the partial statement from Texas vs White which you boldened; wasn't the Court referring to the Military Board of Texas and not the entire Confederate government?
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 11-15-11 at 11:04 PM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  7. #747
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Okay, you guys are trolls. The end.
    You are really bad at this without doubt. Now you know you just lost and there is no possible way to win so you go calling everyone a troll. Great.

    As for your post to me, that was already covered.

  8. #748
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    The case you reference was heard in 1874, thirteen years after the act of secession was committed and nine years after Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase declared to President Lincoln that the Supreme Court could never uphold a treason conviction for any Confederate based on the fact that there was NOTHING in the Constitution at the time which made Secession illegal.
    That is what makes Chase so obviously full of it in 1869 just a few years before 1874. If what he said was true in 1869 then his statement in 1874 is not only humorous but telling. So which is it Chase? Was it illegal or not? Did it fall under the introduction or not? Does the introduction have power chase? Lol.

  9. #749
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You are really bad at this without doubt. Now you know you just lost and there is no possible way to win so you go calling everyone a troll. Great.

    As for your post to me, that was already covered.
    I thought calling you trolls was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Sorry.

  10. #750
    All Warm and Fuzzy
    FluffyNinja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Miss-uh-Sippie
    Last Seen
    10-21-17 @ 04:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    4,831

    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Exactly. The Constitution is what we follow. If you're operating by something other than the Constitution, you're argument holds no water. And again, the United States is not like the United Nations at all. The United States is a nation. The United Nations is an organization of nations.
    The Confederates WERE indeed acting under the US Constitution when the Confederate States exercised their "Constitutional Right" to secede.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •