View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #711
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    For all those who think the Confederacy had the right to Fort Sumter just because SC had declared secession:

    Do you feel the same way about every group that declares secession/independence? For example, the Kurds in Iraq?

    Last time I checked, you have to fight for independence, you can't just say "We're a new nation! This is our land!" Why does this not apply to the Confederacy?
    In the case of the Kurds, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    For all those who think the Confederacy had the right to Fort Sumter just because SC had declared secession:

    Do you feel the same way about every group that declares secession/independence? For example, the Kurds in Iraq?

    Last time I checked, you have to fight for independence, you can't just say "We're a new nation! This is our land!" Why does this not apply to the Confederacy?
    Before the sovereign and independent states formed their union, each was its own nation. They then formed a union. The union was a federation of nations, not a nation. A federation of nations is not a nation, just as a federation of bowling alleys is not a bowling alley.

    If a states decides to leave the federation, that state is not creating a new nation. It was already a preexisting nation. It is simply relinquishing its membership in the federation it had voluntarily joined. There is no rebellion. There is no treason. There is simply leaving a union of sovereign and independent states.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    In the case of the Kurds, yes.
    Interesting, we might just have a different philosophy of independence/property rights then.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Before the sovereign and independent states formed their union, each was its own nation. They then formed a union. The union was a federation of nations, not a nation. A federation of nations is not a nation, just as a federation of bowling alleys is not a bowling alley.

    If a states decides to leave the federation, that state is not creating a new nation. It was already a preexisting nation. It is simply relinquishing its membership in the federation it had voluntarily joined. There is no rebellion. There is no treason. There is simply leaving a union of sovereign and independent states.
    Where is this in the Constitution? Where does it say - this is a federation of independent nations?

    You keep trying to compare the United States to something like the United Nations, but it really isn't like that.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    were the individual Provinces of British America....sovereign entities?

    this is the first time I'm hearing of this.
    You might want to read the treaty of Paris. In it, England recognizes each of its former colonies, individually by name, as sovereign and independent states.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Well, me, Lincoln, the Supreme Court and the rest of the Union disagree.
    At the time 1861 Lincoln and the union were thought to be violating the law. It wasn't until after the war did THEY get to decide that wasn't true with bogus claims about things they didn't bother to defend(you haven't either) and were in opposition to what the author and the rest of the founders thought on the subject.


    Saying "they had it" literally means nothing. It's embarrassing that you don't understand that.
    It means everything if you understood my argument at all. It was illegal for them to fight against it. I know shocker..
    Last edited by Henrin; 11-15-11 at 10:28 PM.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Before the sovereign and independent states formed their union, each was its own nation.....
    I'm sorry, but this is 100% incorrect. New York, Virginia, New Jersey, North Carolina, were not seperate nations before 1787.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Where is this in the Constitution? Where does it say - this is a federation of independent nations?

    You keep trying to compare the United States to something like the United Nations, but it really isn't like that.
    Well I'm sorry but it is. Maybe you should actually read about how the country was formed and how that didn't change fundamentally even if liberals say it did after the AOC? Just a suggestion.
    Last edited by Henrin; 11-15-11 at 10:27 PM.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Where is this in the Constitution? Where does it say - this is a federation of independent nations?

    You keep trying to compare the United States to something like the United Nations, but it really isn't like that.
    It's not in the constitution. It is a historical fact. After winning their independence from Britain, the former colonies became sovereign and independent nation-states.

    They then entered into a union, and nothing in the terms of that union indicates that they relinquished their sovereignty.

    The united states are very much like the united nations. However, the united states have agreed to abide by more restrictions and have delegated more powers to their union. But essentially, the two organizations are the same in that they are federations of sovereign and independent nation-states.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is 100% incorrect. New York, Virginia, New Jersey, North Carolina, were not seperate nations before 1787.

    Well this sure says it right here I do believe.

    Thus, the force and effectiveness of this sovereignty which was thus “retained” from the Declaration of Independence, was equivalent to that of any other nation; this was made clear in the Declaration, via the statement:

    “That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that, as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do” (emphasis in original).

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