View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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  • Yes

    36 36.73%
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    56 57.14%
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    6 6.12%
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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #561
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You sure have a great way to show it.
    thank you. Your support is appreciated.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #562
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, if you scrap it the act falls under the tenth and you loss the argument. And you need to explain your reasoning.
    The tenth amendment doesn't do squat. Besides, I already explained my reasoning, but I'll help you out and re-post it.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Treason in the Constitution is levying war against the United States and forming a confederation. The Confederacy fired the first shots on Fort Sumter - therefore, they levied war against the United States while being members of the Union (and also formed a confederation).

    In order for their actions to have NOT been treason, they would have to have been a separate country. In order for them to have been a separate country, they would have had to make themselves a separate country. They did not. They tried, but they failed. Declaration of independence is not independence. Independence must be be fought for and won. They declared, they fought and they lost. Consequently, they were and will always remain a failed insurrection - a treasonous confederation of states.

  3. #563
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Sorry, I spoke incorrectly. I meant to say it does NOT grant the government unlimited power to provide for the welfare of the people like the supreme court has ruled. Madison and the author of the constitution said no in Federalist 41.

    By itself the words General Welfare has no authority so technically I wasn't wrong anyway, but felt I should correct the mistake I made there.
    I wanted to add this quote from a post I made last year on the very issue of the welfare clause but my time ran out..

    Quote Originally Posted by ME
    The term general welfare as in the "welfare clause" is describing the broad ends of the constitution i.e., justice, domestic tranquility, common defense, and liberty, It is meant to enlarge the dominion of government beyond the enumeration itself, but not to give power. In federalist #41 madison was talking about what "General Welfare" meant and why it was included in the document. In his explaining he is describing the purposes of the enumerated powers and provide more specific meaning to the general purposes of the government.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The tenth amendment doesn't do squat. Besides, I already explained my reasoning, but I'll help you out and re-post it.
    So you think an amendment does nothing but an introduction gives power? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

    Treason in the Constitution is levying war against the United States and forming a confederation. The Confederacy fired the first shots on Fort Sumter - therefore, they levied war against the United States while being members of the Union (and also formed a confederation).

    In order for their actions to have NOT been treason, they would have to have been a separate country. In order for them to have been a separate country, they would have had to make themselves a separate country. They did not. They tried, but they failed. Declaration of independence is not independence. Independence must be be fought for and won. They declared, they fought and they lost. Consequently, they were and will always remain a failed insurrection - a treasonous confederation of states.
    That just shows you don't understand what the word union means.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    ??? Ft. Sumter was a Federal Installation - property of the United States, so no occupation or invasion took place. Possession was established before S. Carolina voted for secession, so logically were they not seeking an armed conflict, they could have negotiated a time frame for withdrawal and offered a payment for the property.
    The south asked... them... to.... leave. They didn't leave. That was the Souths territory.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Free For All View Post
    The south asked... them... to.... leave. They didn't leave. That was the Souths territory.
    No it wasn't.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You have nothing to fear. Relax. Calm down. My knowledge of history is extensive and my knowledge of reality is even broader.
    Congratulations, you have just made the most incorrect statement in Debate Politics history. There is no prize, but you do get the consolation of knowing this post stood out. Thank you and good luck in your future endeavors.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    The welfare clearly provides Congress with the power to tax and spend. To say that the welfare clause "does not give power" is patently idiotic.
    Actually no. The power to lay and collect taxes is concisely spelled out but must be uniform. The north did not in fact have to power to regionalize taxes and tariffs. They were wrong in that.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So you think an amendment does nothing but an introduction gives power? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
    The Tenth Amendment does absolutely nothing to contradict the fact that the states committed treason according to the definition in the Constitution.

    That just shows you don't understand what the word union means.
    So I have arguments, court rulings, the Constitutional definition of treason and presidential documents ... and you have ... snark. Thank you for your concession. This was fun.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 11-15-11 at 05:53 PM.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post

    However, refusing to leave a military base, and in fact sending reinforcements to said base was viewed as an act of aggression.
    Why would they abandon their property?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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