View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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    36 36.73%
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    56 57.14%
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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #551
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Treason in the Constitution is levying war against the United States and forming a confederation. The Confederacy fired the first shots on Fort Sumter - therefore, they levied war against the United States while being members of the Union (and also formed a confederation).

    In order for their actions to have NOT been treason, they would have to have been a separate country. In order for them to have been a separate country, they would have had to make themselves a separate country. They did not. They tried, but they failed. Declaration of independence is not independence. Independence must be be fought for and won. They declared, they fought and they lost. Consequently, they were and will always remain a failed insurrection - a treasonous confederation of states.
    Oh so "occupying" a fort in the south wasn't enough to start a war? WHEN THE SOUTH TOLD THEM TO GET THE HELL OUT... that my friend is an invasion.

  2. #552
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You shouldn't be happy with errors even if they work for you. And like I explained it was not treason.



    I will fight bad rulings in the courts if I can. You would as well if you knew what was good for you. Sadly, I fear you don't have a clue.
    You have nothing to fear. Relax. Calm down. My knowledge of history is extensive and my knowledge of reality is even broader.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Free For All View Post
    Oh so "occupying" a fort in the south wasn't enough to start a war? WHEN THE SOUTH TOLD THEM TO GET THE HELL OUT... that my friend is an invasion.
    They weren't "occupying" anything. It was a United States fort. Just because the Confederates said it was there's doesn't make it there's.

    Declaring independence != independence. Independence must be fought for. The South fought for it, but they lost. Their actions against Fort Sumter were treason.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    So you don't like his interpretation of the Constitution which makes him a dumbass. This is not a premise on which fruitful conversation can be had.
    Does the welfare clause give power? Clearly not. Do you know why? Its not my interpretation, but common knowledge that the clause he referenced does not give power and proven by the founders themselves and the balance of power. If you want to support his claim I look forward to it. Until then, I'll see you around.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You have nothing to fear. Relax. Calm down. My knowledge of history is extensive and my knowledge of reality is even broader.
    You sure have a great way to show it.

  6. #556
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Does the welfare clause give power? Clearly not. Do you know why? Its not my interpretation, but common knowledge that the clause he referenced does not give power and proven by the founders themselves and the balance of power. If you want to support his claim I look forward to it. Until then, I'll see you around.
    The welfare clearly provides Congress with the power to tax and spend. To say that the welfare clause "does not give power" is patently idiotic.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Does the welfare clause give power? Clearly not. Do you know why? Its not my interpretation, but common knowledge that the clause he referenced does not give power and proven by the founders themselves and the balance of power. If you want to support his claim I look forward to it. Until then, I'll see you around.
    I agree with his interpretation - but we can scrap that interpretation if it makes you feel better and the end result is the same - the Confederate States committed treason.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    The welfare clearly provides Congress with the power to tax and spend. To say that the welfare clause "does not give power" is patently idiotic.
    Sorry, I spoke incorrectly. I meant to say it does NOT grant the government unlimited power to provide for the welfare of the people like the supreme court has ruled. Madison and the author of the constitution said no in Federalist 41.

    By itself the words General Welfare has no authority so technically I wasn't wrong anyway, but felt I should correct the mistake I made there.
    Last edited by Henrin; 11-15-11 at 05:23 PM.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Free For All View Post
    Oh so "occupying" a fort in the south wasn't enough to start a war? WHEN THE SOUTH TOLD THEM TO GET THE HELL OUT... that my friend is an invasion.
    ??? Ft. Sumter was a Federal Installation - property of the United States, so no occupation or invasion took place. Possession was established before S. Carolina voted for secession, so logically were they not seeking an armed conflict, they could have negotiated a time frame for withdrawal and offered a payment for the property.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I agree with his interpretation - but we can scrap that interpretation if it makes you feel better and the end result is the same - the Confederate States committed treason.
    No, if you scrap it the act falls under the tenth and you loss the argument. And you need to explain your reasoning.

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