View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #521
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Actually it wasn't. My OP was about the flag being a symbol of treason waved by people who aren't traitors and the irony/stupidity of that phenomenon.

    Try harder.
    No thanks. Not only is a flag is nothing but a symbol, but you explicitly talked about exhibiting the flag being treasonous as a demonstration of disloyalty.

    You can try harder.

  2. #522
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The claims I made are obvious and without fail, it does fall under the tenth. You need to show me evidence I failed somewhere. You are doing nothing but what you usually do. The courts are right, and you are wrong. That is not logic, its bull****. It doesn't matter how many times you do it, it is always going to be a poor excuse of an argument.
    reality and the historical record show that you are incorrect in your opinion. My opinion on the issues of the Constitution means nothing when the Supreme Court says otherwise. The same for you or anyone else. All the mental gymnastics do not change that reality. All the convoluted logic in the world does not change that reality. All of the connecting the dots with your reasoning skills do not change that reality.

    You see Henrin, the argument means nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the reality of the events as they actually did happen and that is reflected in the historical record.
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  3. #523
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    There are several threads on the Confederate flag that dance around this question.

    Many people, usually, if not always, conservatives, argue in favor of the Confederate flag and the desire to fly it or place it within the public domain. Oftentimes, they refer to it as if it is merely an innocent symbol of United States history, a symbol of state's rights, a symbol of fighting against far reaching federal government and sometimes even a symbol of patriotism.

    However, these arguments, to me, seem like revisionist nonsense. The Confederate flag represents treason. It was the flag of people whose actions were not based in love of their country, but in a decision to give up on their country and abandon it in order to form a new one. It was a flag flown by those who decided that they no longer wished to be a part of the United States and that they no longer wished to solve their problems while remaining Americans.

    Consequently, it seems obvious to me that the Confederate flag is not one that would be flown proudly by Americans, but one that would be flown proudly by those who no longer wish to be Americans. For this reason, it seems ridiculous to allow such a flag to be present on anything belonging to or issued by the state as it represents those who want to disassociate themselves from the state. It also seems ridiculous for anyone who considers themselves a patriot to fly the flag of people who abandoned their patriotism. Am I right about all of this? If not, why not?
    The Confederate flag is as treasonous as the American flag is/was. In the end the CSA did no more to the USA than what the USA did to Britain. The CSA wanted the freedom to do things as their way of life instead of how the "North" wanted to do things which was their way of life. History is written by the winners. How would the Confederate flag be viewed today if the CSA won their bid for freedom as the USA had roughly a century prior? Probably no worse or better than the German flag is currently. I've heard that the Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery. If so then why isn't the German flag a symbol of Jewish hate?

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    If so then why isn't the German flag a symbol of Jewish hate?
    Even though I agreed with your post... the German flag isn't considered Jewish hate because the German flag wasn't the symbol of the Nazi regime.

  5. #525
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    The Confederate flag is as treasonous as the American flag is/was. In the end the CSA did no more to the USA than what the USA did to Britain. The CSA wanted the freedom to do things as their way of life instead of how the "North" wanted to do things which was their way of life. History is written by the winners. How would the Confederate flag be viewed today if the CSA won their bid for freedom as the USA had roughly a century prior? Probably no worse or better than the German flag is currently. I've heard that the Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery. If so then why isn't the German flag a symbol of Jewish hate?
    I think you are conflating the German flag with the Nazi Flag. The Nazi flag (Swastika) is most certainly viewed as a symbol of hate, in fact it is banned within the borders of the FRG.

    I once bought the argument that the South was not fighting to preserve slavery, further study and reflection has led me to the conclusion that I was buying a revisionist history. Slavery was exactly the fight. Remember it is not the common soldier (or even professional soldier in a free society) or citizen that starts wars or decides their reasons, it is the elite (political, economic...) for the elite of the period it was slavery and its pepetuation that brought them to secession.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    I just don't think we should give a damn....
    The South got angry for whatever reason they got angry for.
    The South Succeeded.
    The South told Yankees get the hell out. (Fort Sumter)
    Yankees didn't get the hell out.
    The South attacks (Doesn't invade).
    The Yankees invade.
    Them damn yankees win.

    Its over and done with. The confederate flag can mean whatever the hell you want it too mean!
    But this is America... and were supposed to be free damn it.
    That means free to hate America and free to be racist... as long as you don't act upon it.
    Last edited by Free For All; 11-15-11 at 10:01 AM.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    The Confederate flag is as treasonous as the American flag is/was. In the end the CSA did no more to the USA than what the USA did to Britain. The CSA wanted the freedom to do things as their way of life instead of how the "North" wanted to do things which was their way of life. History is written by the winners. How would the Confederate flag be viewed today if the CSA won their bid for freedom as the USA had roughly a century prior?
    I agree that the American flag is treasonous, which is why, had the US not won, it would be a symbol of treason if it were flown in Britain. I am not making an argument about treason in and of itself. I'm making an argument about flying a treasonous flag WITHIN the state that the treason was committed against and the irony/stupidity of that phenomenon.

    Probably no worse or better than the German flag is currently. I've heard that the Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery. If so then why isn't the German flag a symbol of Jewish hate?
    The Nazi flag is a symbol of hate. That's the appropriate comparison.

  8. #528
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    No thanks. Not only is a flag is nothing but a symbol, but you explicitly talked about exhibiting the flag being treasonous as a demonstration of disloyalty.
    Quote please since that's not true.

  9. #529
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Free For All View Post
    Even though I agreed with your post... the German flag isn't considered Jewish hate because the German flag wasn't the symbol of the Nazi regime.
    I just used this quote but it is address to all between my two post who commented on the flag comparison.

    I intentionally used the German flag instead of the Nazi flag (well banners really, I don't think I've ever really seen a Nazi flag before) because regardless of the party running it Germany was the country that was exterminating Jews. Likewise regardless of the people running it, elite or otherwise, the CSA was the country wanting to keep slavery. I find it an apt comparison.

    to snilloctjc: from my readings over the years, while slavery was among the issues, it was not the top issue (although certainly up there). So I need to disagree with your implied premise that the attempted secession was about preserving slavery. I will grant that I may be misreading in that you may have once believe that slavery wasn't an issue at all and have since revised. I certainly don't fool myself that slavery wasn't on the table. I just find no evidence that it was the only or main issue.

  10. #530
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    to snilloctjc: from my readings over the years, while slavery was among the issues, it was not the top issue (although certainly up there). So I need to disagree with your implied premise that the attempted secession was about preserving slavery. I will grant that I may be misreading in that you may have once believe that slavery wasn't an issue at all and have since revised. I certainly don't fool myself that slavery wasn't on the table. I just find no evidence that it was the only or main issue.
    No intention to say slavery was never an issue. My position is that when you dig through all the arguments at the core it boils down to slavery.

    States Rights - what right were they determined to perserve? The right to rule on the issue of slavery

    Economics - That peculiar institution was necessary to keep the agriculutural engine running - keep slaves

    Nullification - the laws they wished to nullify were laws concerning slavery

    Sorry but I can find no other reason more powerful than the fight to maintain slavery. Look at the legal and physical battles leading up to the civil war. Dredd Scott, decision, Missouri/Maine Compromise, etc - all were attempts to mitigate the slave issue, and preserve the union.

    Other than taking the argument down to individual people there was no issue greater than that of slavery. It fueled the passions of both sides to the point of civil war
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