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Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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99percenter said:
That's the thing though. The US was not a confederacy like EU which states were independent. In any dispute the federal govt is the final authority as was in the secession dispute. The federal govt said that pursuant to the Constitution secession was illegal and therefore the confederacy never existed.
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that's what some folks refuse to grasp. The United States of America is not a union of sovereign states, like the EU is.

In 1787, when the States ratified the Constitution, they willingly gave up their nationhood to become part of a larger nation. They stopped being a state. That's why they can't print their own money, make treaties, exchange ambassadors, raise armies, etc etc.

New York State is no more a seperate country than Manhattan Island or Nassau County is. All vestiges of nationhood were willingly & freely given up when the Constitution was ratified.

We are ONE nation, not a collection of 50.
 
Thunder said:
that's what some folks refuse to grasp. The United States of America is not a union of sovereign states, like the EU is.

...

We are ONE nation, not a collection of 50.
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I'm very confused as to where people are getting this idea that the US is the same as the EU or the UN. I've never heard anyone claim that before, but in this thread, people are acting like it's common knowledge. It's crazy. The US is a single nation, not a union of several nation-states as many have claimed.
 
theplaydrive said:
I'm very confused as to where people are getting this idea that the US is the same as the EU or the UN. I've never heard anyone claim that before, but in this thread, people are acting like it's common knowledge. It's crazy. The US is a single nation, not a union of several nation-states as many have claimed.
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Indeed. We are not the European Union. We aren't even Canada, which is a confederacy of Provinces. We are ONE nation.
 
apdst said:
No, they were fighting for their property rights..
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apdst said:
Southerners viewed the abolition of slavery as a threat to their property rights....
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and yet, they ignored the property rights of the Federal govt., in regards to Ft. Sumter.

I guess that makes the Confederates a bunch of hypocrites, huh?
 
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99percenter said:
I made that claim and you haven't proven anything. The british did not buy cotton made by slave labor. They decided to get cotton from india instead.
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American cotton was the highest quality cotton in the world. The Brits didn't choose not to buy it, because it was harvested with slave labor. Stop believing the politically correct hype.

The states that entered the Confederate States accounted for 70 percent of total US exports, and the Confederate leaders believed that this would give the new nation a firm financial basis. Cotton was the primary potential export, accounting for 75 percent of Southern goods either shipped to northern US states or exported in 1860.

Economy of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A small fraction of the cotton was exported through blockade runners. In the total course of the war, 446,000 bales of cotton were exported to England and Europe.

Economy of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Objective Voice said:
IMO, the rebel flag really should be done away with. Before folks who know which side of the racial divide I fall on pounce on me, I ask that you hear me out because I'm about to tell it like it is! No sugar coating here, folks.

I fully understand this particular flag's place in history. It's a symbol of historical pride for many who were born and raised in the South. However, for some that "pride" goes deep and it's dark...really dark.

For many, the rebel flag is nothing more that a symbol of southern pride and historical memorabilia; nothing more. These are people who very likely are history buffs, born and raised in the south who love southern traditions and take great pride in being good, decent, kind, fun-loving southern folks. Being that I'm a Black man who happens to be a "Yankey livin' in the mid-south," I can tell you I've met more kind hearted White southerns than I've met any who wish to do me harm. However, there are those whose view of the rebel flag represents something much more sinister - White racial unity and supremacy. Anyone who denies this is very likely attempting to hide behind a segregationist mindset born of a bygone era of slavery, share cropping, racial hatred and racial inequality against those who are not of "their own kind".

It is for the latter reason that I believe the rebel flag should be done away with because whenever it is raised under that dark cloud of racial hatred, inequality and bigotry all one racial group sees is "Let's go get us one of 'dem there **gers! Get a rope!," while the other sees "Danger, Will Robinson!".

I would not have a problem with the rebel flag being placed in a national museum, i.e., the Smithsonian, because of its historical significance. Treat it exactly as we've treated all former versions of the Stars and Stripes from the 13 original colonies to when this nation ratified Hawaii as its 50th state. Moreover, while it is totally permissible for each state to raise its state banner, I find no reason whatsoever to raise the rebel flag and give it such homage just because of its historical significance connected only to those southern states that lost the Civil War. As such, hang it on your walls in your homes if you wish to display your southern pride! Put rebel flag bumper stickers on your cars. Hang calendars or posters with southern beauties draped in it if you will. (I just gave somebody a nice marketing idea! Go me!! :) ) But I honestly see no reason to wave this flag at public events because in the majority of situations whenever it is waved high with vigor, there's also the venom of "piss and vinegar" that accompanies it. (Ever been to a KKK rally?)

I respect the historical significance of the rebel flag, as well as the attachment for some as a symbol of southern pride, but to ignore the dark stigma that comes with it...

While I don't see the rebel flag as a sign of treason, I do question why its still allowed to be put on public display considering that when you strip away all the historical relevance, this flag is used more to remind people of what tore this country apart rather than what should be holding us together. Play Taps, fold it neatly, retire it and tuck it away in a display case.
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Two words: Free Speech.
 
Thunder said:
right, and we have the right to condemn it as hate-speech.
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No one has said you can't. However, I would oppose any government legislation against the public display of the Confederate flag.

Such legislation would amplify what the South was fighting for: If you ban the Confederate flag, what's next?
 
Thunder said:
you mean like falsely claiming that ALL the states of the Confederacy had a refendum on secession?

:lamo
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I merely pointed out that secession was decided by the people, which you claimed didn't happen.
 
apdst said:
No one has said you can't. However, I would oppose any government legislation against the public display of the Confederate flag....
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as do I.

govt. should not legislate against the display of the CSA flag on private property.

however, it has no place on public property, as it is a symbol of white-supemacy.
 
Thunder said:
as do I.

govt. should not legislate against the display of the CSA flag on private property.
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Does that mean you want to ban the Stars and Stripes? Slavery existed longer under the Stars and Stripes than it did under the Confederate flag.

however, it has no place on public property, as it is a symbol of white-supemacy.
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Unless it's being displayed by a citizen, then it's that pesky ol' free speech thing.
 
apdst said:
Does that mean you want to ban the Stars and Stripes?....
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it can be displayed by individual citizens, yes. just as the Nazi flag can be displayed by individual citizens on public grounds.

however, schools and other govt. entities should NOT be displaying the Rebel flag, the Nazi flag, the Soviet flag, etc.
 
Thunder said:
it can be displayed by individual citizens, yes. just as the Nazi flag can be displayed by individual citizens on public grounds.

however, schools and other govt. entities should NOT be displaying the Rebel flag, the Nazi flag, the Soviet flag, etc.
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No one is saying that should be the case.
 
apdst said:
I merely pointed out that secession was decided by the people, which you claimed didn't happen.
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Wrong. You claimed that there was a referendum in ALL of the states of the CSA, to decide on secession.

which as you know, is a lie.
 
Caine said:
....................... and yet you can't prove it..

:lamo
:rofl
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nor will he ever be able to prove such an alleged "explicit prohibition"... because one does not exist.
he can, however, argue about implied prohibition, but not explicit.

it's rather humorous to me that folks think the Confederate states should have followed the Constitution.. a document they just separated themselves from.
it's akin to saying an immigrant from Zimbabwe should adhere to Zimbabwe's laws after he dissolved his Zimbabwean citizenship.
"hey!.. you guys can't leave... the Constitution says you can't"
"umm bro.. the Constitution doesn't count for us.. we got our own now... those are your laws, these are ours"
"the Constitution says you can't though"
"having a comprehension problem today?... the Constitution doesn't govern us anymore.. we bailed on it"
"we'll take it to the supreme court then"
" oh that's awesome... let's take it to a court who is mandated to judge us by a set of laws that do not pertain to us.. i'm sure we'll get a fair trial there!"
" but they are the grand arbiter of the supreme law of the land..."
" yeah.. the supreme law of the land that we just removed ourselves from..."
" but you can't remove yourself from it.."
"why?"
"cuz the Constitution says you can't"
" <facepalm>"

makes me giggle just thinking about it....
 
Thrilla said:
nor will he ever be able to prove such an alleged "explicit prohibition"... because one does not exist.
he can, however, argue about implied prohibition, but not explicit.

it's rather humorous to me that folks think the Confederate states should have followed the Constitution.. a document they just separated themselves from.
it's akin to saying an immigrant from Zimbabwe should adhere to Zimbabwe's laws after he dissolved his Zimbabwean citizenship.
"hey!.. you guys can't leave... the Constitution says you can't"
"umm bro.. the Constitution doesn't count for us.. we got our own now... those are your laws, these are ours"
"the Constitution says you can't though"
"having a comprehension problem today?... the Constitution doesn't govern us anymore.. we bailed on it"
"we'll take it to the supreme court then"
" oh that's awesome... let's take it to a court who is mandated to judge us by a set of laws that do not pertain to us.. i'm sure we'll get a fair trial there!"
" but they are the grand arbiter of the supreme law of the land..."
" yeah.. the supreme law of the land that we just removed ourselves from..."
" but you can't remove yourself from it.."
"why?"
"cuz the Constitution says you can't"
" <facepalm>"

makes me giggle just thinking about it....
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"In the end, the Army said you can't." :rofl
 
Thunder said:
Wrong. You claimed that there was a referendum in ALL of the states of the CSA, to decide on secession.

which as you know, is a lie.
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You said there were 12 Confederate states, too.
 
Thunder said:
I admitted I was incorrect.

Will you now admit that you were incorrect, when you stated that all the CSA states had a referendum on secession?
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No, because my entire point was, that the people of each state had a say in the decision to secede, which you orginally stated didn't happen.

Whether it was a special election of secession delegates, or an outright referendum, the people voted for, or against secession. You calimed that didn't happen, at all. I blew you out of the water and now you want to keep moving the goal posts.
 
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