View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #381
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The South made the first violent act of the Civil War with Fort Sumter. It didn't secede peacefully. Whether or not their actions were 'understandable' is irrelevant to whether or not their actions were violent. They were. They initiated the war and I have no idea why you're trying to pretend they didn't.
    the secession was peaceful... and occurred 4 months prior to Fort Sumter.(except for the 4 border states who seceded as a result of the battle of fort sumte)

    the south fired the first shots, that for certain... but as for initiating war, that's a matter of perspective.
    the confederates held that the union maintaining Fort Sumter, on confederate soil, was an act of war which initiated hostilities.
    the Union held that the initiation of war was the acts of violence against the Fort.
    there's legitimacy on both sides there, to me.

  2. #382
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You said:

    You're wrong. They didn't.
    Good job cherry picking. Now, why don't you include the rest of what I said after "The south seceeded peacefully." Context is everything.


    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Think on this. What would have happened if the Confederates had just walked away? The Union and the Confederacy considered that territory its territory. One group chose to start violence.
    Why should they walk away? Fort Sumpter was obviously in South Carolina, a state that had seceeded from the Union. Before the secession that fort was considered it be in and a part of the state of South Carolina. It was for all intents and purposes South Carolina's fort.
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  3. #383
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Fine. It's "We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union..." It just backs up my position more, that there were a "people of the United States," not the people of 13 seperate countries.
    Yes, the people of the states formed the union. I don't argue with you about this.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    It's not treasonous to refer to history.

    If something as simple as (waving) the Confederate flag is treasonous, then everyone who's burned the actual flag is way deeper in ****.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I still think they're crazy. But I also think those of you screaming "treason!" are hacks.
    I was going to respond point by point and then I saw this and realized your posts weren't worthy of it.

    First, calling it "treason" is not a "leap". Many people during the Civil War considered it treason. Certain definitions of treason consider it treason. If you want to argue that it isn't treason, go ahead, but I'll defend my arguments as well. However, chalking a valid argument up to hackery is nonsensical.

    Second, there is nothing wrong with treason in and of itself and the majority, if not all, of us have not made such an argument. Moreover, most arguments, particularly mine in the OP do not rest upon a value of judgment of treason, but upon a question of its existence. We all know how our country was founded, so please spare us lessons that we've already learned.

  6. #386
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    It's not treasonous to refer to history.

    If something as simple as (waving) the Confederate flag is treasonous, then everyone who's burned the actual flag is way deeper in ****.
    No one has argued that waving a Confederate flag is treasonous.

  7. #387
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    What would you say if a militia in Montana suddenly opened fire on a border crossing and declared themselves part of Canada?
    If a militia in Montana suddenly opened fired on a border crossing and declared themselves a part of Canada then that would be an act of treason or at the very least convicted for breaking our laws. Reason being is that any militias that are in Montana does not speak for the Montana government or for the state as a whole. It is just a group. We are talking about States here. Not groups of people.

    However individual citizens do have a right to renounce citizenship of the US. And most countries will allow individuals to apply for citizenship.
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  8. #388
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    What's not similar about it, outside of joining Canada? It's a group of people exercising their 2nd Amendment rights in concert with one another.
    Well, the Confederacy didn't simply open fire for one. Sanity wasn't their strong suit, but they weren't quite that nuts.

  9. #389
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Good job cherry picking. Now, why don't you include the rest of what I said after "The south seceeded peacefully." Context is everything.
    And the context does nothing to make that statement correct.

    Why should they walk away? Fort Sumpter was obviously in South Carolina, a state that had seceeded from the Union. Before the secession that fort was considered it be in and a part of the state of South Carolina. It was for all intents and purposes South Carolina's fort.
    I haven't made a claim that they should have walked away. I pointed out the facts that both the Union and the Confederacy considered Fort Sumter their territory. Neither one was objectively correct. Who 'owned' it was a matter of perspective. They both thought they owned it. One of them chose to be violent. These are just simple facts. I have no arguments about "should" and whatnot.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 11-13-11 at 10:08 AM.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It's not the same thing at all and it's a bit annoying and insulting that you're pretending it is. This wasn't an international situation - that's why it was called a "civil war". It was a war between citizens of the same country. It is treason for citizens of a country to wage war upon its country.

    The UN comparison is so inaccurate on so many levels.
    All wars often get thier name after the war has ended. Just because it is called a Civil War does not mean that is truely exactly what happened.

    If it truely was a civil war then why is it you suppose that the states had to apply for admittance into the Union after the war? Does that not indicate that the southern states were considered to be no longer a part of the union? IE thier secession was basically accepted?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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