View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #371
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Listen, folks. I think the Confederate flag is sort of an off-color thing to celebrate. I really don't get it. At all.

    But.

    Regardless of whatever historical argument you guys are having (please, coming from the ancestors of British traitors... are you guys serious?), even if we are to make the leap to treason, I can't help but think the most fundamental tenet of what the US is about would be ok with that under the right circumstances.

    What is more important? The hunk of dirt, or what's right?

    The Civil War was about a lot more than slavery. Even if it hadn't been, keep in mind the Constitution you guys keep going back to was written by slave-owners.

    Whatever you think of the Confederacy and what they fought for, they were evidently doing it because they thought it was right. And while sanity seems to come from the North, passion has always come from the South.

    Whatever the law says, whatever obscure technicalities your bickering may lead to, here's the simple fact: we are a nation built on treason, that draws its ethics from doing what it believes is right, not necessarily what is condoned. And if the Confederacy thought it was right enough and the Union was wrong enough to go to war over it, I can respect that... even if I personally think they're crazy.

    The 2nd amendment of our Constitution ensures that citizens will be able to defend themselves with deadly force against the government. Think about that. That's the kind of country we are. We're the kind of country that will go vigilante on your ass if we think you deserve it, and we're Constitutionally entitled to do so.

    All the Confederacy really did was execute their 2nd amendment right on a mass scale after being denied sovereignty by an adorably hopeful but ultimately naive Union.

    I still think they're crazy. But I also think those of you screaming "treason!" are hacks.

  2. #372
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The very first sentence of the Constitution is "We the People, in order to form a more perfect union." not "We the States, in order to form an agreeable arrangement." The implication being that the people were one nation, and what they were forming was a "more perfect union" to bring them together.
    Get the quote right.

  3. #373
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Then I guess we should just get it over with. It's not the "United States." It's the "Temporarily Aligned States."
    That may be one way to look at it. That's what a federation is.

  4. #374
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post

    All the Confederacy really did was execute their 2nd amendment right on a mass scale after being denied sovereignty by an adorably hopeful but ultimately naive Union.

    I still think they're crazy. But I also think those of you screaming "treason!" are hacks.
    What would you say if a militia in Montana suddenly opened fire on a border crossing and declared themselves part of Canada?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  5. #375
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    These rules apply to the states in the union. States that are not in the union obviously are not governed by the constitution.

    States never relinquished their sovereignty, and the constitution has no provision that prevents states from leaving. There's no legal prohibition on any state leaving the union.
    The Confederate states were in the Union before they established the Confederacy. They were states that established a confederation. That is the point.

    It is unnecessary to pursue the subject further. Whatever de facto character may be ascribed to the Confederate government consists solely in the fact, that it maintained a contest with the United States for nearly four years, and dominated for that period over a large extent of territory. When its military forces were overthrown, it utterly perished, and with it all its enactments. Whilst it existed, it was regarded, as said in Thorington v. Smith, 'as simply the military representative of the insurrection against the authority of the United States.' 8 Wall. 1; Keppel's Adm'rs v. Petersburg Railroad Co., Chase's Decisions, 167.

    Whilst thus holding that there was no validity in any legislation of the Confederate States which this court can recognize, it is proper to observe that the legislation of the States stands on very different grounds. The same general form of governments, the same general laws for the administration of justice and the protection of private rights, which had existed in the State prior to the rebellion, remained during its continuance and afterwards. As far as the acts of the States did not impair, or tend to impair, the supremacy of the national authority, or the just rights of citizens under the Constitution, they are, in general, to be treated as valid and binding.

    96 U.S. 176

  6. #376
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The very first sentence of the Constitution is "We the People, in order to form a more perfect union." not "We the States, in order to form an agreeable arrangement." The implication being that the people were one nation, and what they were forming was a "more perfect union" to bring them together.

    Basically, you don't give a **** about the Constitution. You see it as nothing more than a temporary and convenient arrangement to meet the needs of 13 colonies in the 1780s with major colonial powers breathing down their neck. If that was the case, it would have been discarded once the geopolitical situation changed.
    And yet the document is called the "Constitution of the United States" and not the "Constitution of this Nation".
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  7. #377
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    What would you say if a militia in Montana suddenly opened fire on a border crossing and declared themselves part of Canada?
    Well, that is not really at all similar to what happened with secession and eventually the war. So mostly, I'd say you're making a completely invalid comparison.

  8. #378
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Get the quote right.
    Fine. It's "We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union..." It just backs up my position more, that there were a "people of the United States," not the people of 13 seperate countries.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  9. #379
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The Confederate states were in the Union before they established the Confederacy. They were states that established a confederation. That is the point.
    They were in the union. Then they left the union. Then they formed their own federation.

  10. #380
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well, that is not really at all similar to what happened with secession and eventually the war. So mostly, I'd say you're making a completely invalid comparison.
    What's not similar about it, outside of joining Canada? It's a group of people exercising their 2nd Amendment rights in concert with one another.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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