View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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    36 36.73%
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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #251
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Right, we could have that debate, but it doesn't change anything in regards to the debate. Actually, this thread is off topic, since it is supposed to be about treason, but it has since moved to whether or not the Confederate flag is related to slavery and owning slaves. This is not about whether the south was full of bad men, no one is saying that. I don't know where you are getting this from.
    I really don't understand why people are disputing the ties the Confederate flag has to history. It's really no big deal to acknowledge it.

  2. #252
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Hick is not a racist word. Look it up.
    It's a bigoted word, for sure. In Libbo Land, bigotry and racism are the same thing.



    No one is comparing people to Nazi's, rather flag symbolism. Try to keep up, we aren't moving that fast.
    That's exactly what's being done. Isn't there a rule barring hate speach on this forum?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #253
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, the "actual", literal, meaning of the flag is that it represents the confederacy during the civil war. That's the meaning they are objecting to. They aren't interpreting it, they're just sticking with the literal meaning. You are arguing that they should accept one particular alternative interpretation about federalism that you support and that they should assume that is what it means.

    Turn it around for a minute and maybe you'll see it in a different light. Say that you saw somebody walking around carrying a Nazi flag. You object to it and he tells you that you are misinterpreting it. He tells you that killing Jews was only part of the motive behind the Nazi's launching WWII. Mostly they were motivated by a desire to rid Europe of communists- a motive he supports- so he is carrying it around to symbolize his support for free market capitalism, not to show his support of the genocide of Jewish people. Do you think that would make it acceptable?

    Now, like I said before, I really do believe that most southerners that fly the confederate flag honestly do mean to communicate a message other than support for slavery. I actually think it is mostly just flat out "southern pride", not the angle about federalism or slavery. But it isn't entirely different than the Nazi example either. The symbol literally is the symbol of a regime that killed hundreds of thousands of Americans primarily in order to continue a 200 year long holocaust of systematically enslaving, beating, killing, raping and breaking up families because of the color of their skin. Did the confederacy also have some less objectionable, or maybe even laudable, goals? Sure they did. But that absolutely, emphatically, does not excuse what they did. People are well within their rights to be offended by a show of support for such a thing even if that isn't what the person doing it intended to communicate.
    Very well said.

  4. #254
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post


    I am not aware of the flag's history or how it came to be so it would hard for me to be a judge of that.
    Oh, I already knew that.

    But, just to educate you, the Somalian national colors is a version of Confederate flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #255
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Right, we could have that debate, but it doesn't change anything in regards to the debate. Actually, this thread is off topic, since it is supposed to be about treason, but it has since moved to whether or not the Confederate flag is related to slavery and owning slaves. This is not about whether the south was full of bad men, no one is saying that. I don't know where you are getting this from.
    Yep, answered that a couple of pages back. But it seems to have been largely missed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I don't believe it to be a symbol of treason.

    Many argue that it was illegal for the states to try and seceed from the Union. They even try to use the Constitution for this basis saying that there is nothing in it that allows a state to seceed. Well, they're right that it doesn't. Directly. However the Constitution is about the United States, not the United Nation.

    When the Constitution was formed it was meant to be a general charter that all of the states would agree to. Each one basically being considered its own mini-country. They did this so that they could help protect each other in case of an invasion from stronger countries. Such as Britain, Spain etc etc. The FF's knew that if they stood apart then they could fall quite easily to any number of countries that wanted new lands and resources. So they agreed to band together. All of them agreeing to allow one central government that would take care of any disputes from foriegn countries and even allowing it to settle disputes between the states themselves. That was the original reason for the Constitution. To provide for the common welfare of the states. However each state was allowed to control what happen inside each states own borders. Before the Civil War happened the Constitution was a limit on the Federal government. Not on the States. After the Civil War however the Constitution started being applied to State governments also. Basically the Federal government got a huge boost in power. It got an even bigger boost when the Supreme Court started ruling that the various amendments in the Bill of Rights also applied to the States and not just the Federal Government as was originally intended. The amendment that allowed that to happen came about as a direct result of the Civil War. Originally the only amendments that applied to the states was the 9th and 10th. Indeed it could be argued that under the 10th Amendment the States had a right to seceed. As everything was originally meant to be applied before the Civil War that is. Now however, despite the 9th and 10th amendments being talked about those two amendments seem to be largely ignored by the Federal Government.
    The rest of my posts was based upon what others have said.
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  6. #256
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Not really, since no one said that those who like or fly the Confederate flag are traitors, but whatevs.
    it's implied all over this thread.. starting with your initial post.

    you put the people who "usually, if not always" support flying the confederate flag on the defensive with your implication.... and to be honest, i've never seen a thread become productive when one side is put on the defensive.

  7. #257
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    No, it's simply a historical flag.
    And the Nazi flag is just a swastika with some red around it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #258
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    i don't fly the confederate flag, but it is a symbol of rebellion. How is that different than ows, the don't tread on me flag, etc?
    they are not trying to separate from the us.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #259
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    it's implied all over this thread.. starting with your initial post.

    you put the people who "usually, if not always" support flying the confederate flag on the defensive with your implication.... and to be honest, i've never seen a thread become productive when one side is put on the defensive.
    It was NEVER implied by me. You inferred it. Not my problem.

    My entire point was that it's ironic for patriots to fly a non-patriotic flag. It wouldn't be ironic if they were actually traitors. They're not traitors and that's why I think flying the flag is so stupid.

  10. #260
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    they are not trying to separate from the us.
    I can find no constitutional prohibition against any of the member states leaving the federation.

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