View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #241
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    You haven't given one response that was worthy of anything other than an eye roll. I am trying to provoke some actual thought out of you, but that appears to be of no avail. If you ever want to actually debate an issue, let me know. Until then, I apologize in advance for continuing to point out the lack of thought, logic, and reason in each of your posts, and for pointing out that they contain nothing other than simple rhetoric. So:

    Can you point out anything wrong in the Daily Show clip with evidence? Can you say without a doubt that most Confederate soldiers were not fighting for the right to remain slave states (with evidence)? Thanks.
    Not that it comes as any surprise, but are you really going to resort to personal attacks, since you've lost the debate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #242
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Are you ****ing kidding me? Those "property rights" were slaves. Please read about 6 posts up and you can see their exact reasons as they stated them in writing. It was slavery.
    apsdt has made the point before that too many people are applying our modern thinking of the subject incorrectly to the topic and he is correct. Now, I don't think most owners had malicious intent towards their slaves and my comments along with apdst's don't mean we condone the line of thinking but rather it was the prevailing thought of the day.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #243
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Hindesight is 20/20....most of the time. Yes it was slavery. No one is denying that. However you should put yourself in thier shoes and try to understand it from thier perspective. Those slaves were property. Was it disgusting? From our point of view hell yes. But to them it was just like a chair or house or dog. Would you not be pissed if you thought that the government was going to come in and take your property away from you?
    Actually, they are arguing that the reason for secession was slavery. If they weren't, there would be no issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, by that logic, the Somalian national flag is a racist symbol and should be removed. Yes?
    I am not aware of the flag's history or how it came to be so it would hard for me to be a judge of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not that it comes as any surprise, but are you really going to resort to personal attacks, since you've lost the debate?
    Not that it comes to any surprise that you didn't read it in context, but that was a response to a similar attack.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    apsdt has made the point before that too many people are applying our modern thinking of the subject incorrectly to the topic and he is correct. Now, I don't think most owners had malicious intent towards their slaves and my comments along with apdst's don't mean we condone the line of thinking but rather it was the prevailing thought of the day.
    Ok, who cares? The topic I have been debating about is whether the reason for secession was slavery, and therefore, the reason for the war. If so, it would be entirely truthful to connect the Confederate flag, which was created due to secession, to slavery itself.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-12-11 at 09:45 PM.

  4. #244
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Like most symbols I think the confederate flag can represent different things to different people. Personally, I kind of assume anyone displaying it is an inbred southern hick, which is an unfair assumption, but that's the vibe it puts off to me.
    More racism. Awesome!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #245
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    The same could be said about the 3rd Reich's flag... but what does the flag stand for?
    I thought the Libbos didn't like it when people brought up the Nazis in an argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #246
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    More racism. Awesome!
    Hick is not a racist word. Look it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I thought the Libbos didn't like it when people brought up the Nazis in an argument.
    No one is comparing people to Nazi's, rather flag symbolism. Try to keep up, we aren't moving that fast.

  7. #247
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Ok, who cares? The topic I have been debating about is whether the reason for secession was slavery, and therefore, the reason for the war. If so, it would be entirely truthful to connect the Confederate flag, which was created due to secession, to slavery itself.
    Slavery was definitely the main reason and the Confederate flag is definitely connected to it, if only by its history rather than its present. I consider those who claim otherwise revisionists.

  8. #248
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Actually, they are arguing that the reason for secession was slavery. If they weren't, there would be no issue.
    At the time slavery was just another word for property.

    Tell me, would you consider a pet to be property? Many would. Yet 300 years from now it may just be another word that could be associated with slavery.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  9. #249
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No it isn't. When I have some jackass telling me what a southern symbol means and it doesn't line up to the actual meaning it is a cultural judgement. Telling me Dixie equals racism would be like me telling someone of a different culture that my interpretation of their symbols or whatever is right.
    Well, the "actual", literal, meaning of the flag is that it represents the confederacy during the civil war. That's the meaning they are objecting to. They aren't interpreting it, they're just sticking with the literal meaning. You are arguing that they should accept one particular alternative interpretation about federalism that you support and that they should assume that is what it means.

    Turn it around for a minute and maybe you'll see it in a different light. Say that you saw somebody walking around carrying a Nazi flag. You object to it and he tells you that you are misinterpreting it. He tells you that killing Jews was only part of the motive behind the Nazi's launching WWII. Mostly they were motivated by a desire to rid Europe of communists- a motive he supports- so he is carrying it around to symbolize his support for free market capitalism, not to show his support of the genocide of Jewish people. Do you think that would make it acceptable?

    Now, like I said before, I really do believe that most southerners that fly the confederate flag honestly do mean to communicate a message other than support for slavery. I actually think it is mostly just flat out "southern pride", not the angle about federalism or slavery. But it isn't entirely different than the Nazi example either. The symbol literally is the symbol of a regime that killed hundreds of thousands of Americans primarily in order to continue a 200 year long holocaust of systematically enslaving, beating, killing, raping and breaking up families because of the color of their skin. Did the confederacy also have some less objectionable, or maybe even laudable, goals? Sure they did. But that absolutely, emphatically, does not excuse what they did. People are well within their rights to be offended by a show of support for such a thing even if that isn't what the person doing it intended to communicate.

  10. #250
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    At the time slavery was just another word for property.

    Tell me, would you consider a pet to be property? Many would. Yet 300 years from now it may just be another word that could be associated with slavery.
    Right, we could have that debate, but it doesn't change anything in regards to the debate. Actually, this thread is off topic, since it is supposed to be about treason, but it has since moved to whether or not the Confederate flag is related to slavery and owning slaves. This is not about whether the south was full of bad men, no one is saying that. I don't know where you are getting this from.

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