View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #191
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's a different culture.
    Southern cultural beliefs are different from others and you can't force people into agreeing by shoe horning them into one nation.

    We can discuss the slavery issue, if you'd like, but it doesn't take away from the argument that, the feds over stepped their authority.
    The facts are too, that the northern states didn't abolish slavery until after the end of the war.

    So stating that the sole cause of the war was slavery, is dishonest.

    Why is the American flag, not considered equally offensive, when slavery existed under it?
    Sounds a lot like cherry picking to me.
    Whoa, whoa. Let's slow this down a bit. Let's start with you backing up your assertions. How did the feds "step over their authority"? Also, as far as I am aware, every state above the Mason-Dixon line had abolished slavery sometime early in the 1800s. And while we are talking about cherry picking, I don't recall the American flag being created when the Founding Fathers decided to secede from European monarchs because the kings wanted us to abolish slavery. That's a horrible comparison.

    I think you have a lot of explaining left to do, because I am lost as to what you are arguing here.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-12-11 at 07:02 PM.

  2. #192
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    So stating that the sole cause of the war was slavery, is dishonest.
    It is definitely true that the desire to prolong slavery wasn't the only motive for the war, but it certainly was a major one. Probably the primary one. And that's more than reason enough to want to dissociate yourself from the confederacy.

    But anyways, when we're talking about what a symbol symbolizes, it's a question about what people think it represents today, not a historical question.

  3. #193
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from HG



    When it comes to certain things like treason - Oh yes we can. America - the USA - is one nation and one people with one set of national laws. Of course there are sub cultures below that. But no subculture in America has a right to treason and to take up arms against the USA.
    If they win, they have all the right in the world.
    And that's how stuff really works.

    The South lost, we got over it, but a lot of others still seem to have a problem with us, especially our iconography.
    Even though they don't fret one iota about northern states, who flew their same/similar flags, while retaining slavery.

    It's just beating a dead horse, to make yourselves feel better.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #194
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    You would have had a stronger argument if you had simply maintained that the southern states used the state's rights rhetoric only when it benefitted their interests most.
    Well that is what I was trying to say, you just summed it up (probably better than I wrote it). Democracy has the downside of not always getting your way, but people don't ever seem to mind it until they don't get their way. Then people are infringing on their rights or whatever lame excuse they want to come up with.

  5. #195
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It is definitely true that the desire to prolong slavery wasn't the only motive for the war, but it certainly was a major one. Probably the primary one. And that's more than reason enough to want to dissociate yourself from the confederacy.

    But anyways, when we're talking about what a symbol symbolizes, it's a question about what people think it represents today, not a historical question.
    I've yet to see any of them name any other reason. They say unfair taxation, but it relates to slaves. They say infringement of state rights, but those rights are related to holding slaves. I am still waiting for even one good reason that does not in some way relate to the ability to own slaves (I am sure there is one actually but the fact remains that almost every reason is related to slavery).

  6. #196
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    So much wrong, so little time.........

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Because I have heard, literally in the past few minutes, talks of how this country is overstepping its bounds lately with ObamaCare.
    The federal has, regardless of what the courts ultimately decide. And the worst part is that the same party that passed that steaming piece of horse **** is responsible directly for the original healthcare mess to start.
    States have threatened to secede over ObamaCare, often saying it is socialism and that infringes upon their rights. I just think it's funny that people live in a democracy, they enjoy the benefits of said democracy, but the second anything is enacted that they do not agree with, all of the sudden the democracy is broken and they do not want to be a part of it.
    Socialism is a garbage ideology not in line with the intent of the constitution, but that is too complex of an argument for this thread as it would derail it, states fought under Dixie exactly because the right of self determination is THAT important. As well, we do not live in a democracy, we live in a democratic republic, unfortunately people elected a bunch of statist ****heads in 2006 and 2008 and gave power to a useless waste of DNA called Nancy Pelosi and as well put Harry Reid in charge in the Senate, they saw the polls stating that people did not want their brand of government power but pushed it through anyway, thus both the democracy and democratic republic models of representation fail for the purposes of argument here.
    But these people have no issue with the other acts that infringe upon rights, as long as it doesn't affect them. Similarly, people want to cut entitlements, unless it's their entitlement, in which case it's not an entitlement it's a right.
    This is not true, many people disagree with things that do not concern them because they realize that it's only a matter of time before an issue that effects them will be on the table.
    But I digress with comparison to current times. Paint the picture any way you like, but the institution of slavery and the Civil War are not mutually exclusive, and nor is the Confederate flag.
    Slavery was a part of the puzzle, nothing more, nothing less. As a matter of fact the economic issues pre-dated the abolitionist movement by decades, slavery was simply the last straw. Dixie was not about slavery, it was about the confederacy that finally had enough from the Union.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #197
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Slavery was a part of the puzzle, nothing more, nothing less. As a matter of fact the economic issues pre-dated the abolitionist movement by decades, slavery was simply the last straw. Dixie was not about slavery, it was about the confederacy that finally had enough from the Union.
    Exhibit F: LaMidRighter. The 12th person to say "slavery was only a part of the puzzle" but then named nothing else.

  8. #198
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Exhibit F: LaMidRighter. The 12th person to say "slavery was only a part of the puzzle" but then named nothing else.
    You must have missed the backlog in the thread that included but was not limited to tariffs, occupation, and the attempt to force industrialization in the south, then there was the positioning of the railroads which the south was not on board with, the naval blockade of southern ports.........
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #199
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Depends on who's legal definition of treason that we're using.
    Under some definitions no, under others yes.

    Your reasoning seems to be somewhat of a cop out too.
    How is it a cop out?

  10. #200
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious
    Whoa, whoa. Let's slow this down a bit. Let's start with you backing up your assertions. How did the feds "step over their authority"? Also, as far as I am aware, every state above the Mason-Dixon line had abolished slavery sometime early in the 1800s. And while we are talking about cherry picking, I don't recall the American flag being created when decided to secede from European monarchs because they wanted us to abolish slavery. That's a horrible comparison.
    Slavery was an issue, not because of the morality of the politicians (ha! anyone really think politicians have such high moral standards), because those northern politicians wanted to contain southern political influence.
    The northern politicians didn't want slavery to expand to the new territories, so they could limit their opponents political power, using the federal government.
    It was an internal power grab.

    You're operating on the presumption that the U.S. government wanted to abolish slavery, which it didn't.
    So no it's quite an accurate comparison.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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