Your first post was very accusatory and negative. You clearly do think it's a bad thing in this case,
In this case. You said it yourself. In this case. And again, none of our arguments rest upon the value judgment. You can say that treason, in this case, was good and my argument still stands. So, once again, I'll repeat:
"there is nothing wrong with treason
in and of itself and the majority, if not all, of us have not made such an argument. Moreover, most arguments, particularly mine in the OP do not rest upon a value of judgment of treason, but upon a question of its existence. We all know how our country was founded, so please spare us lessons that we've already learned."
or at least that no one who flies it can be a patriot.
False. That's a misinterpretation of my position - a misinterpretation I can understand having re-read my OP. Many people who fly it are patriots (in my opinion), which is why I think it's ironic for them to fly it.
This is essentially about whether the Confederate flag is offensive, and/or if people who fly it are traitors. You're dancing really hard around what your posts obviously implied. I'm saying it takes a lot of cojones and a certain amount of denial to even try to pull that argument off. Even if it's true, it's just about the most benign and State-sanctioned form of treason there is, and in addition to that you will find no single explanation for why people fly the Confederate flag. It means different things to different people, some of which are very patriotic in a bizarre, distinctly Southern sort of way.
From growing up in the North and having spent a fair enough amount of time in the South, the reality is that the Civil War never really ended - it just turned into a cold war. There is still a very distinct identity amongst a lot of Southerners. Something the more bland Northerners will never really get. Something I don't get, frankly. But I know better than to comment on things I don't understand... especially considering that some of my ancestors were quite literally Revolution traitors.
They see themselves as "the real Americans," not the traitors. Being an American is basically an idea - it's something you can take with you. They think they took it with them when they made the Confederacy. And if I turn to the right and **** my head about 45 degrees, I can sort of see where they're coming from.
It's such a subjective and ultimately meaningless thing that I don't see why it's such a big deal. They think they're "the real Americans." I think they're crazy. We have our opinions. But I'm very convinced both of us ultimately care about the country. Their idea of what it means to be an American is also very meta, and even though I don't think most of them know what that is, it's impressive none the less.
This actually isn't about whether the flag is offensive which is why I tried not to start a "but the flag offends me vs. stop whining" argument which discussions about this flag often lead to. I specifically made it about treason because it is something that can be objectively determined and that is rarely ever addressed head on. Most people usually argue about whether it's offensive, but I find this topic more interesting.
So you can distort my position and ignore the entire subject of this OP and make it about whether or not the flag is offensive, but that choice has nothing to do with me. As far as I'm concerned, all the people who have come in here saying, "this is really just about being offended" chose to disregard the actual words of my post. The treason discussion can stand on it's own. Oh and BTW, spare me the "oh good, non sequitor" act. Both of your posts consisted of nothing but strawmen and ad homs.