View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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  • Yes

    36 36.73%
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    56 57.14%
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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #1611
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Would the fact that you in post after post fail to actually say anything of historical relevance combined with you being the most vocal apologist for the confederacy and the despicable treatment of African Americans also be nothing more than coincidence?
    Got anything in YahooAnswers to back tht up?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When you say these things, do even you believe what you are writing? By this point I have come to be half suspecting that you are merely having what you believe is a good laugh by pretending to be this cartoon caricature.
    You're just pissed off, because when you tried to throw the KKK into the debate to prove whateverthehell, that you found yourself lieing face down in the gutter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When you say these things, do even you believe what you are writing? By this point I have come to be half suspecting that you are merely having what you believe is a good laugh by pretending to be this cartoon caricature.

    I see no three high intelligent and well informed posters offering anything of substance on this subject which overrides the painful reality of hundreds of years of slavery, followed by Jim Crow, Plessey v. Ferguson, the Klan and oppressive southern governments systematically ifnoring the US Constitution.

    If you do, feel free to present it and I will be happy to tear it apart.
    Can you do much of anything except adhom Apdst to death?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Got anything in YahooAnswers to back tht up?

    apdst - your repeated whining about using yahoo answers as a source is at best humorous and at worst rather sad.

    The information I took from it was regarding just who in the South owned slaves. Here is the information from yahoo answers

    Almost one-third of all Southern families owned slaves. In Mississippi and South Carolina it approached one half. The total number of slave owners was 385,000 (including, in Louisiana, some free Negroes). As for the number of slaves owned by each master, 88% held fewer than twenty, and nearly 50% held fewer than five. (A complete table on slave-owning percentages is given at the bottom of this page.)

    For comparison's sake, let it be noted that in the 1950's, only 2% of American families owned corporation stocks equal in value to the 1860 value of a single slave. Thus, slave ownership was much more widespread in the South than corporate investment was in 1950's America.

    On a typical plantation (more than 20 slaves) the capital value of the slaves was greater than the capital value of the land and implements.

    You do not like this because it disagrees with your white supremacist sites and the ravings of convicted murderers that you use for your supposed numbers.

    However, before you go attacking yahoo answers, lets see what other sources say about the validity of this information

    1- this article on Wikipedia uses the source Distribution of Slaves in US History

    Slavery in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    it confirms the numbers from yahoo answers as follows:

    Only 8% of all US families owned slaves,[124] while in the South, 33% of families owned slaves and 50% of Confederate soldiers lived in slave-owning households
    This book length excellent study of the soldiers who made up the confederate army confirms the information

    Amazon.com: General Lee's Army: From Victory to Collapse (9781416596974): Joseph Glatthaar: Books

    Even more revealing was their attachment to slavery. Among the enlistees in 1861, slightly more than one in ten owned slaves personally. This compared favorably to the Confederacy as a whole, in which one in every twenty white persons owned slaves. Yet more than one in every four volunteers that first year lived with parents who were slaveholders. Combining those soldiers who owned slaves with those soldiers who lived with slaveholding family members, the proportion rose to 36 percent. That contrasted starkly with the 24.9 percent, or one in every four households, that owned slaves in the South, based on the 1860 census. Thus, volunteers in 1861 were 42 percent more likely to own slaves themselves or to live with family members who owned slaves than the general population.
    The attachment to slavery, though, was even more powerful. One in every ten volunteers in 1861 did not own slaves themselves but lived in households headed by non family members who did. This figure, combined with the 36 percent who owned or whose family members owned slaves, indicated that almost one of every two 1861 recruits lived with slaveholders. Nor did the direct exposure stop there. Untold numbers of enlistees rented land from, sold crops to, or worked for slaveholders. In the final tabulation, the vast majority of the volunteers of 1861 had a direct connection to slavery. For slaveholder and nonslaveholder alike, slavery lay at the heart of the Confederate nation. The fact that their paper notes frequently depicted scenes of slaves demonstrated the institution's central role and symbolic value to the Confederacy.
    More than half the officers in 1861 owned slaves, and none of them lived with family members who were slaveholders. Their substantial median combined wealth ($5,600) and average combined wealth ($8,979) mirrored that high proportion of slave ownership. By comparison, only one in twelve enlisted men owned slaves, but when those who lived with family slave owners were included, the ratio exceeded one in three. That was 40 percent above the tally for all households in the Old South. With the inclusion of those who resided in nonfamily slaveholding households, the direct exposure to bondage among enlisted personnel was four of every nine. Enlisted men owned less wealth, with combined levels of $1,125 for the median and $7,079 for the average, but those numbers indicated a fairly comfortable standard of living. Proportionately, far more officers were likely to be professionals in civil life, and their age difference, about four years older than enlisted men, reflected their greater accumulated wealth.
    The Historic Census Browser from the University of Virginia also confirms the numbers from yahoo answers that you are so disparaging of

    University of Virginia Library
    here is a description of their findings

    The Historical Census Browser from the University of Virginia Library allows users to compile, sort and visualize data from U.S. Censuses from 1790 to 1960. For Glatthaar's purposes and ours, the 1860 census, taken a few months before the outbreak of the war, is crucial. It records basic data about the free population, including names, sex, approximate age, occupation and value of real and personal property of each person in a household. A second, separate schedule records the name of each slaveholder and lists the slave he or she owns. Each slave is listed by sex and age; names were not recorded. The data in the UofV online system can be broken down either by state or counties within a state, and make it possible to compare one data element (e.g., households) with another (slaveholders) and calculate the proportions between them.

    In the vast majority of cases, each household (termed a "family" in the 1860 document, even when the group consisted of unrelated people living in the same residence) that owned slaves had only one slaveholder listed, the head of the household. It is thus possible to compare the number of slaveholders in a given state to the numbers of families/households, and get a rough estimation of the proportion of free households that owned at least one slave. The numbers varies considerably, ranging from 1 in 5 in Arkansas to 1 in 2 in Mississippi and South Carolina. In the eleven states that formed the Confederacy, there were in aggregate just over 1 million free households, which between them represented 316,632 slaveholders—meaning that just under one-third of households in the Confederate States counted among its assets at least one human being.
    Want to go for six times pulling this silly yahoo answer routine only to get crushed and flushed each and every time?
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Can you do much of anything except adhom Apdst to death?
    Sure, I can do a lot more like completely destroy his false allegations of historical fact like with a point point presentation of the truth like I have done in the previous post.

    Read it and learn. Thanks for asking.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're just pissed off, because when you tried to throw the KKK into the debate to prove whateverthehell, that you found yourself lieing face down in the gutter.
    and how is that? The Klan was real. Their criminal actions were real. the people they killed, multilated and tortured were real. Their legacy of hate was real.

    I can see how an apologist of racial hatred would not like them being introduced into the discussion.

    Sadly for you the historical record says otherwise
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Got anything in YahooAnswers to back tht up?
    Remember that time you said that the Episcopalian flag had something to do with the Confederacy, but then we found out that it wasn't even created until 1918 and it had nothing to do with the Confederacy?


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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    There you go. You get it now... amazing.
    Did you even read my post? I got it aka said it several days before you even posted in this thread. I can still see that you aren't fully grasping how much of this thread has flown over your head.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No more than the indians found th early American Christians savage. During the first winter in America, the Pilgrims actually robbed an indian village for food, because they were on the verge of starving to death.

    I'm sure the indians thought that was purdy dog-gone savage of them.
    You are the king of irrelevant points. And Bodhisattva is the king of liking them.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sure, I can do a lot more like completely destroy his false allegations of historical fact like with a point point presentation of the truth like I have done in the previous post.

    Read it and learn. Thanks for asking.
    Shhhhh! The grown-ups are talking!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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