View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #1291
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Many people have missed the argument that the Civil War shifted power to the federal, if states lose the recourse of secession then it is eventually to be assumed by the federal government that they can invent extra constitutional powers later down the road, that theory has more than played out in the years following the surrender of the south. It's natural when debating the confederate flag that the conversation would devolve as such.
    Yes, exactly! And by doing so, they have fallaciously attempted to place the act of secession into a modern, legal context instead looking at it from the era-appropriate perpective when Strict Constructionism was still the accepted method of Constitutional interpretation. Sometimes I feel like hitting myself in the head with a damned brick because some of these people simply cannot shed their personal biases long enough to take a truly objective look at historical events.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Cite the exact area, I mean Article, Section, and paragraph. We want the EXACT words prohibiting secession.
    I'm assuming that if we can't find it, secession is constitutional. By that logic, murder and arson are constitutional. Of course, I've already explained that secession has already been declared not only unconstitutional, but null and void as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Many people have missed the argument that the Civil War shifted power to the federal, if states lose the recourse of secession then it is eventually to be assumed by the federal government that they can invent extra constitutional powers later down the road, that theory has more than played out in the years following the surrender of the south. It's natural when debating the confederate flag that the conversation would devolve as such.
    Which is the classic attempt to get our eye off the ball of what the Civil War was really about. Because if we somehow overlook the institution that the South was trying to protect, and if we somehow ignore the Supreme Court's ruling against secession, then all of a sudden this becomes a legitimate issue. The problem that the Confederate sympathizers don't understand is, you can't ignore either of those issues. Either one of them voids your entire argument.

    Remember, the Civil War's being alleged as a war in favor of states' rights and economic freedom is nothing new. That was the cover story that the South gave for defending their bastard government. Everybody knew the real reason: Slavery.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I'm assuming that if we can't find it, secession is constitutional. By that logic, murder and arson are constitutional. Of course, I've already explained that secession has already been declared not only unconstitutional, but null and void as well.



    Which is the classic attempt to get our eye off the ball of what the Civil War was really about. Because if we somehow overlook the institution that the South was trying to protect, and if we somehow ignore the Supreme Court's ruling against secession, then all of a sudden this becomes a legitimate issue. The problem that the Confederate sympathizers don't understand is, you can't ignore either of those issues. Either one of them voids your entire argument.

    Remember, the Civil War's being alleged as a war in favor of states' rights and economic freedom is nothing new. That was the cover story that the South gave for defending their bastard government. Everybody knew the real reason: Slavery.
    Well said.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I'm assuming that if we can't find it, secession is constitutional. By that logic, murder and arson are constitutional. Of course, I've already explained that secession has already been declared not only unconstitutional, but null and void as well.
    First of all, murder and arson are not charges that can be brought up against a state, this is the first logical fallacy. Second, murder and arson being individual charges can be brought up against and individual through state laws and due process. As well the Federal government does have laws against individuals destroying federal property or committing murder against federal employees or within federal properties and that is perfectly legal, it falls under the defense clause. That is your second logical fallacy. Third, your appeal to the court. A law cannot be declared ex post facto. If you don't know what this means an american court cannot retroactively apply punishment in the U.S. for actions committed before a law or judgement was passed. In other words the U.S. could not declare that a legal act post war was illegal and that decision could not stand. As a matter of fact there are STILL state secession discussions. That is your final logical fallacy, appeal to authority can not stand on it's own, especially considering the authority in question tends to reverse itself on occasion.



    Which is the classic attempt to get our eye off the ball of what the Civil War was really about. Because if we somehow overlook the institution that the South was trying to protect, and if we somehow ignore the Supreme Court's ruling against secession, then all of a sudden this becomes a legitimate issue. The problem that the Confederate sympathizers don't understand is, you can't ignore either of those issues. Either one of them voids your entire argument.
    The only people attempting deflection are those trying to maintain that the north was 100% correct. The facts have been presented and shrugged off by people who don't want to admit that maybe they didn't get the whole story on the Civil War. But if you want to maintain your stance.....whatev.
    Remember, the Civil War's being alleged as a war in favor of states' rights and economic freedom is nothing new. That was the cover story that the South gave for defending their bastard government. Everybody knew the real reason: Slavery.
    Ah yes. More simplifying. Slavery was a sub-issue and the last straw, many writings from the north of the time even say that abolition was a sub-issue to their desire of maintaining the Union. So we can retire that argument.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I'm assuming that if we can't find it, secession is constitutional. By that logic, murder and arson are constitutional. Of course, I've already explained that secession has already been declared not only unconstitutional, but null and void as well.
    When did that happen?



    Which is the classic attempt to get our eye off the ball of what the Civil War was really about. Because if we somehow overlook the institution that the South was trying to protect, and if we somehow ignore the Supreme Court's ruling against secession, then all of a sudden this becomes a legitimate issue. The problem that the Confederate sympathizers don't understand is, you can't ignore either of those issues. Either one of them voids your entire argument.

    Remember, the Civil War's being alleged as a war in favor of states' rights and economic freedom is nothing new. That was the cover story that the South gave for defending their bastard government. Everybody knew the real reason: Slavery.
    Why do ya'll insist on labeling those who don't buy into your PC revised version of history, "Confederate sympathizers", or, "slavery apologists"?
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why do ya'll insist on labeling those who don't buy into your PC revised version of history, "Confederate sympathizers", or, "slavery apologists"?
    Why is an orange called an orange?
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    ...The states could agree to abolish the federal government, just as they abolished the Articles of Confederation.
    only through an Amendment to the Constitution, which would require a 2/3rds vote by the House.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    The Confederate Flag is simply a symbol of the South... of Dixie. It is about being proud of that fact.

    Don't make more of it is than it actually is... we have enough real problems in the world without manufacturing them.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When did that happen?





    Why do ya'll insist on labeling those who don't buy into your PC revised version of history, "Confederate sympathizers", or, "slavery apologists"?
    It is a classic liberal tactic. Attack and put on the defensive anything that you don't consider Politically Correct.

    Don't want SSM... you are a bigot.
    Think that traditional family structure might include women at home taking care of children, you are a sexist.
    Want to stop illegal immigration, you are a racist.
    think that the Dixie Flag is fine, you are a Confederate sympathizer...

    It is cowardly and pathetic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I'm assuming that if we can't find it, secession is constitutional. By that logic, murder and arson are constitutional. Of course, I've already explained that secession has already been declared not only unconstitutional, but null and void as well.
    Laws can and do exist outside of the Constitution, and in the case of murder and arson the State is not only not allowed to deprive anybody of life liberty or property, but lawmakers have made laws that make average citizens depriving others of life liberty or property illegal.


    Remember, the Civil War's being alleged as a war in favor of states' rights and economic freedom is nothing new. That was the cover story that the South gave for defending their bastard government. Everybody knew the real reason: Slavery.
    Slavery was the issue that brought up States Rights... so the real issue was actually: States vs Federal Rights.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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