View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    First off, you tend to be drifting from the OP's question. Fact is, the "Stars and Bars" the "flag" as we now know it, WAS NOT adopted by those who filed these Sessionist Documents............it was adopted as a Battlefield emblem and used as a rallying symbol by Confederate soldiers, at last 95% of which were too poor to own a slave even if they'd wanted to. Go back and read Goshin's last two or three posts......he covered the reasoning pretty well.
    Oh, a battlefield emblem that was used to rally Confederate soldiers in a war to continue slavery? I thought it was a flag that represented peaceful secession, but apparently it more represents a rallying flag to kill as many Union soldiers as possible in the effort to continue slavery and count blacks as less property on taxes (while still using them as population for representative purposes). Now that you put it that way, I see your point.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-12-11 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #122
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No evidence? That's doesn't come as a surprise.
    You seem to labor under the delusion that you as a person in a debate can make outrageous statements that even you fail to offer evidence of proof for but that they somehow someway will stand on their own if the other side does not disprove them. That is NOT the way debate works.

    It is incumbent on the person making the claims to offer evidence of their claims.

    If you claim that there are three inch high monkeys made of flame who play professional basketball underneath the surface of Uranus, then it is YOUR responsibility to prove it. Nobody has the responsibility to prove that there are not such flame monkeys on Uranus.

    What part of this do you not understand?

    Here is your claim of historical fact and how you would prove it for all of us

    What I will do, however, prove that all 11 Confederate states and 3 border states had state wide referendums on secession.
    What you eventually offered was one source which listed three confederate states that had such state wide referendums. You utterly failed to present anything to back up your claimof 11 confederate states and three additional border states conducting such state wide referendums on secession.

    That is the evidence and it is directly from YOU.

    Is there some part of this that you still do not understand?

    You have ZERO credibility on this issue.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-12-11 at 01:07 PM.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Southerners viewed the abolition of slavery as a threat to their property rights. They saw things from the traditional American perspective: when one right is eroded, the rest are surely to follow.
    But they ignored the right to freedom that they were taking away from their "property". That dog doesn't bark.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    150 years from now, after the animal rights freaks abolish pet ownership, they'll look back at us and think about evil we were.

    They'll be wrong, of course...because? Because, they're not looking at things from the proper historical perspective.
    My position does rest on making a moral judgment about Confederates. It rests only on determining whether or not they were traitors. According to the Constitution they were and according to some of them they were.

    Even so, as I brought up earlier, because a nation is really just the sum of certain ideas, it could be argued that the Confederacy was the group that was truly living up the US's idea and the Union was the traitor. Nonetheless, in the US, as it is today, the Confederacy does not represent the current United States, so to fly it's flag is to represent a group that did not want to belong to the current USA.

  5. #125
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Oddly enough there are many historians who would disagree with you. My college history Prof was one of them... and he was from somewhere up North, and his ancestors hadn't even arrived in 1865, so it isn't like he had any dog in that fight. He was just concerned with historical accuracy. His History of the Civil War class was awesome, much like his History of Vietnam class.... he began the latter class with "to understand the root causes of the Vietnam War, we must begin in approximately 900 BC, when the ...."

    Very thorough fellow who looked deeper than surface issues.
    And there are many historians that would agree with me, my teacher was one of the smartest guys I know, and his classes were some of the most interesting classes I've ever taken. I learned alot in those classes, and all the evidence that I have seen, and continue to see about the civil war points to only one conclusion, the main issue was slavery. When it boils down to it, if slavery weren't in danger, the war wouldn't have happened.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Humans as property. Its absolutely disgusting that any "god-fearing" person would justify such heinous act committed in our country. The US was the last industrialized country to abolish slavery because bunch of racist rednecks didn't want to progress as the rest of society did.
    Animal righters are going to be saying the same thing in 150 years.

    The same reason the rednecks from the south like strom thurmond tried to filibuster the civil rights acts.
    You should stop with the racism, it doesn't help your already wanting credibility.


    Russia abolished serfdom before we abolished slavery. That's embarrassing.
    They didn't abolish serfdom. They simply re-invented it. Just like the United States re-invented slavery and called it the, "company store system", which remained in place well into the 20th Century.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #127
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    slavery was the biggest issue. We had congressman going to the capital with guns. The election of Lincoln was the final straw and that's when the south decided to commit treason.

  8. #128
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    My position does rest on making a moral judgment about Confederates. It rests only on determining whether or not they were traitors. According to the Constitution they were and according to some of them they were.

    Even so, as I brought up earlier, because a nation is really just the sum of certain ideas, it could be argued that the Confederacy was the group that was truly living up the US's idea and the Union was the traitor. Nonetheless, in the US, as it is today, the Confederacy does not represent the current United States, so to fly it's flag is to represent a group that did not want to belong to the current USA.
    Wow! Which one of your Libbo college professors blew all that smoke up your butt?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #129
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Oh, a battlefield emblem that was used to rally Confederate soldiers in a war to continue slavery? I thought it was a flag that represented peaceful secession, but apparently it more represents a rallying flag to kill as many Union soldiers as possible in the effort to continue slavery and count blacks as less property on taxes (while still using them as population for representative purposes). Now that you put it that way, I see your point.
    Can you prove that this is WHY the typical Confederate soldier was fighting (strictly to defend an institution which they could never afford to take part in)? I'll answer for you...............NOPE. You can't prove it. Like I said, go back and read Goshin's and apdst's explanations for why these men were fighting, I'm too lazy to type it all over again.
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 11-12-11 at 01:14 PM.
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  10. #130
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    And there are many historians that would agree with me, my teacher was one of the smartest guys I know, and his classes were some of the most interesting classes I've ever taken. I learned alot in those classes, and all the evidence that I have seen, and continue to see about the civil war points to only one conclusion, the main issue was slavery. When it boils down to it, if slavery weren't in danger, the war wouldn't have happened.
    There are many historians that insist that the Holocaust never happened, too. Most of them, as with historians who think the Civil War was souly about slavery, have little, if any credibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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