View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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    36 36.73%
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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #1281
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    No, not nation-states. As rocket88 pointed out, I was using the wrong term. In my opinion, they are simply sovereign states who have entered into a federal compact. I see no evidence of them relinquishing their sovereignty, and as I noted above, several of them specifically stated that in joining the union they were not relinquishing their sovereignty. So yes, I believe they are sovereign states.
    So wait... do you not realize that the Articles of Confederation were completely repealed when the Constitution was enacted? Nothing in them is valid any longer.
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So wait... do you not realize that the Articles of Confederation were completely repealed when the Constitution was enacted? Nothing in them is valid any longer.
    Of course. The states dissolved that compact and created our current compact.

    My point is that they never voluntarily relinquished their sovereignty, unless someone can point out where any state indicated that they are doing so. Since several states clearly indicated that they were not relinquishing their sovereignty, I'll go with that.

  3. #1283
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    That's where you are wrong. we have a federation not a confederation like EU. In any dispute, the federal govt is the final authority.
    I thought that the Constitution was the final authority. Does the Rule of Law no longer apply in the USA, or just in your world?
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  4. #1284
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    I thought that the Constitution was the final authority. Does the Rule of Law no longer apply in the USA, or just in your world?
    Secession is prohibited by the constitution.
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  5. #1285
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Secession is prohibited by the constitution.
    Cite the exact area, I mean Article, Section, and paragraph. We want the EXACT words prohibiting secession.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    That's where you are wrong. we have a federation not a confederation like EU. In any dispute, the federal govt is the final authority.
    Hold on there. The states have some power exclusively, the federal government some exclusively, and some are shared - and when those in the last group conflict, then federal law is supreme. But that's not the same thing as "any dispute."
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    yes, and they stopped being independent soverign states, when they ratified the Constitution and became part of the USA.
    They ceased being independent, but they still have sovereignty.

    They gave up some of their sovereign powers, but not all, when they ratified the constitution. States are still the ultimate source of that power. The states could agree to abolish the federal government, just as they abolished the Articles of Confederation.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Secession is prohibited by the constitution.
    You're really not very good at this, are you?
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    They ceased being independent, but they still have sovereignty.

    They gave up some of their sovereign powers, but not all, when they ratified the constitution. States are still the ultimate source of that power. The states could agree to abolish the federal government, just as they abolished the Articles of Confederation.
    Thanks for the response. I completely agree. This thread seems to now have evolved (devolved) into a discussion of where true(more) political authority lies: (1) With the people (states) or (2) With the Federal Government which was created by the people (states)?

    I think that if we look at the evolution of our system from a TRULY HISTORICAL perpective and place events such as ratification of the constitution, Secession of the Southern states, and various Supreme Court Opinions in THEIR PROPER CONTEXT, it would become quite obvious as to which side the "political authority meter" tilts.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Thanks for the response. I completely agree. This thread seems to now have evolved (devolved) into a discussion of where true(more) political authority lies: (1) With the people (states) or (2) With the Federal Government which was created by the people (states)?

    I think that if we look at the evolution of our system from a TRULY HISTORICAL perpective and place events such as ratification of the constitution, Secession of the Southern states, and various Supreme Court Opinions in THEIR PROPER CONTEXT, it would become quite obvious as to which side the "political authority meter" tilts.
    Many people have missed the argument that the Civil War shifted power to the federal, if states lose the recourse of secession then it is eventually to be assumed by the federal government that they can invent extra constitutional powers later down the road, that theory has more than played out in the years following the surrender of the south. It's natural when debating the confederate flag that the conversation would devolve as such.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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