View Poll Results: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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  • Yes

    36 36.73%
  • No

    56 57.14%
  • I don't know.

    6 6.12%
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Thread: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

  1. #1251
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Free For All View Post
    You scored it wrong sir.
    It's like I said, I just don't feel like imparting 151 years of U.S. historical expansions and constitutional abuses. It would take too long and too much bandwidth for someone to just either dismiss it or not get it altogether.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #1252
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    I know you are, but what am I?
    Really?

    You just keep dealing in hypotheticals and I will stick with documented history, mkay?

    Some parting advice.........go read a few books, stay off of wiki and google for awhile , and get yourself a new perspective on history. G'night champ.
    I accept your surrender.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    It's like I said, I just don't feel like imparting 151 years of U.S. historical expansions and constitutional abuses. It would take too long and too much bandwidth for someone to just either dismiss it or not get it altogether.
    If somewhere in all of that is something relevant to the OP, I'm game. I'll be up for a little while longer, and then I'll be checking in on this thread sometime tomorrow.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  3. #1253
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Oh, by the way, I never got an explanation for this comment:

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Those rooting for the losers [the Confederacy] realize that the federal grew to unreasonable proportions due to that loss, you can thank that loss the next time you get frisked by the TSA, or audited by the IRS, or whatever happens.
    Were you seriously suggesting that winning the Civil War ultimately caused airport pat-downs?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  4. #1254
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Oh, by the way, I never got an explanation for this comment:



    Were you seriously suggesting that winning the Civil War ultimately caused airport pat-downs?
    I really don't feel like breaking the process down for you.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #1255
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No matter how many times you repeat this it is not correct. I'm done with you.
    Actually, he IS correct. Ft. Sumter WAS US property. Even if you take the position that secession was legal (which it wasn't), that does not alter the fact that Ft. Sumter was federal property and the south using any violence towards it was an act of aggression. It is also irrelevant as to whether the south wanted to occupy Ft. Sumter peaceably. They had no right to the property.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #1256
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I really don't feel like breaking the process down for you.
    Probably because there is none.

    That about wraps things up for now. Good night, and good luck.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Actually, he IS correct. Ft. Sumter WAS US property. Even if you take the position that secession was legal (which it wasn't), that does not alter the fact that Ft. Sumter was federal property and the south using any violence towards it was an act of aggression. It is also irrelevant as to whether the south wanted to occupy Ft. Sumter peaceably. They had no right to the property.
    I disagree, here is why: Secession was not covered in the constitution, it was later adjudicated to be against the constitution after the war, however there is no specific power of the U.S. Federal government to enforce statehood, likewise there is no constitutional prohibition against state secession.....this is actually why we still have secession movements today, obviously some among our countrymen want the issue back in court(though it probably won't do much good).

    The second point is that when secession was tested essentially all territory within southern borders would fall under the laws of the respective nations, right or wrong the fort was now in southern property and the original compact was no longer in force. I had early used the Gitmo analogy, if something changes in Cuba and the new regime decides that they do not want to honor the lease on Gitmo then the U.S. would have the choices of either leave, renegotiate, or fight. While I can see why people say the fort was U.S. property under the condition of leaving the Union the original terms were null and void. I'm not even all that concerned about who was right or wrong on the issue, because I think both sides did more than enough to light the fire. It boiled down to the south telling the north to leave and the north refusing, I think had the north accepted southern delegates at the capital and began negotiations on the fort the war probably could have been avoided, to be fair that is just a theory.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #1258
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Even if you take the position that secession was legal (which it wasn't)
    Both the SCOTUS and the US Constitution disagree with you.

    that does not alter the fact that Ft. Sumter was federal property and the south using any violence towards it was an act of aggression. It is also irrelevant as to whether the south wanted to occupy Ft. Sumter peaceably. They had no right to the property
    Ft. Sumter ceased to be Federal property of the USA when South Carolina LEGALLY seceded from the Union. Just as the city of San Antonio and the Alamo ceased to be Mexican property when the citizens declared their independence from Mexico, and just as the city of Boston ceased to be British property when the colonies declared their independence from the Crown.

    But I digress.....this has all been discussed exhaustively in the past 120 pages or so. I've got the documented history on my side, on yours, you've got implications made from ex post facto court renderings made 10-20 years after the act of secession.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  9. #1259
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I disagree, here is why: Secession was not covered in the constitution, it was later adjudicated to be against the constitution after the war, however there is no specific power of the U.S. Federal government to enforce statehood, likewise there is no constitutional prohibition against state secession.....this is actually why we still have secession movements today, obviously some among our countrymen want the issue back in court(though it probably won't do much good).
    And this is where I reject strict constructionism. The US was never created to be considered a compact or a confederation. These concepts were dissolved when the Articles of Confederation were replaced with the Constitution. The Constitution itself implies the perpetuity of the US. People may say that Texas v. White was decided AFTER the Civil War, but that is irrelevant. It was decided, constitutionally, that secession was illegal. No case indicated that it was legal before or after this.

    The second point is that when secession was tested essentially all territory within southern borders would fall under the laws of the respective nations, right or wrong the fort was now in southern property and the original compact was no longer in force. I had early used the Gitmo analogy, if something changes in Cuba and the new regime decides that they do not want to honor the lease on Gitmo then the U.S. would have the choices of either leave, renegotiate, or fight. While I can see why people say the fort was U.S. property under the condition of leaving the Union the original terms were null and void. I'm not even all that concerned about who was right or wrong on the issue, because I think both sides did more than enough to light the fire. It boiled down to the south telling the north to leave and the north refusing, I think had the north accepted southern delegates at the capital and began negotiations on the fort the war probably could have been avoided, to be fair that is just a theory.
    The secession test was irrelevant since it was not a legal test. The fort was certainly US territory. Your Gitmo example is inconsistent. If the property is leased, then it is not actually US property. If I lease a building, the building is not my property, but the property of the leaser. In the case of Ft Sumter, it WAS US property.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #1260
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    Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Both the SCOTUS and the US Constitution disagree with you.
    Actually, SCOTUS agrees with me completely, and since I reject strict constuctionism, union perpetuity is implied in the Constitution and certainly a progression from the Articles of Confederation.

    Ft. Sumter ceased to be Federal property of the USA when South Carolina LEGALLY seceded from the Union.
    Since this is completely inaccurate, your point is also inaccurate.

    Just as the city of San Antonio and the Alamo ceased to be Mexican property when the citizens declared their independence from Mexico, and just as the city of Boston ceased to be British property when the colonies declared their independence from the Crown.
    No. They ceased to be the properties of those countries when those countries ceded them through the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and the Treaty of Paris respectably.

    But I digress.....this has all been discussed exhaustively in the past 120 pages or so. I've got the documented history on my side, on yours, you've got implications made from ex post facto court renderings made 10-20 years after the act of secession.
    I haven't read the last 120 pages, but I've read your side of the argument plenty of times before. It didn't hold water then, and it doesn't now.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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