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Should Joe Paterno stay or go?

Should Joe Paterno stay or go?

  • He should stay, he wasn't involved.

    Votes: 3 5.8%

  • He should stay, he did what his part by reporting it to somebody.

    Votes: 8 15.4%

  • He should go, he didn't do enough.

    Votes: 36 69.2%

  • He should go, he's ultimately responsible no matter what.

    Votes: 4 7.7%

  • I have no clue. Fill me in.

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • Total voters
    52
herenow1 said:
He's past the age of retirement anyway, it's not like he didn't live his life's dream, where's the punishment in that? Will he get retirement money from them?
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Of course, he will. That's a contractual obligation. And you're right....it was certainly past time for this guy to move over.
 
jambalaya said:
You bring up a point that needs to be discussed. I firmly believe at least a few of these parents knew what happened to their boys. It probably wasn't the anal rape incident although it could be, but some of the parents were aware that their boys were being groped or touched inappropriately and did nothing. I am positive Sandusky's wife was aware on some level as were other people close to him. Also, the eight victims in the indictment are just the tip of the iceburg. I am sure his abuse goes much further back and will involve dozens of kids. I think what we should be trying to do is come to an understanding of the dynamic that causes good, honorable people not to follow through and do the right thing. These aren't bad people. Many are probably usually people of action. We need to learn something here and crucifying everyone around Sandusky is not the best way to get at the answers.
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Maybe some did - is there proof?

If a parent knows their child is being molested and does nothing they deserve just as much judgment - maybe more.

But I'm not about to assume any of them knew unless evidence comes out as such.
 
MaggieD said:
In the handling of Penn State's response (lack of it), what difference does it make what the parents did or did not know? And how can anyone extrapolate from what's been reported that some parents knew and did nothing? You've taken a giant leap in logic here...and there's no net.
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In terms of Penn States responsibility and culpability what the parents knew or didn't know does not make a difference. I am just looking at the broader picture of how everyone is reacting to some of the people surrounding Sandusky. What I suggest is not a giant leap in logic. If you will look at other cases of people like Sandusky you will find they all follow a familiar and tragic pattern.
 
Neither and no vote
Joe is the product of another era, when a good deal of people were "not so nice" - to minorities, children, women....If we "fire " him, should we fire 10,000 Catholic priests as well, or 50 million or us....
Those without sin, cast the first stone....
What the so-called "news" dwells on I find to be disgusting !
 
earthworm said:
Neither and no vote
Joe is the product of another era, when a good deal of people were "not so nice" - to minorities, children, women....If we "fire " him, should we fire 10,000 Catholic priests as well, or 50 million or us....
Those without sin, cast the first stone....
What the so-called "news" dwells on I find to be disgusting !
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Well, he's fired. We don't live in "that era" anymore. Guy's an amoral jerk. 50 million of us? What the heck does that mean? "Those without sin..." -- how many people do you know and fail to report to authorities who molest little boys?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Maybe some did - is there proof?

If a parent knows their child is being molested and does nothing they deserve just as much judgment - maybe more.

But I'm not about to assume any of them knew unless evidence comes out as such.
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Yea, I'm just wondering why more parents didn't come forth. Maybe the fact that they were 'underpriveledged' meant they didn't have caring parents around?
 
Joe Paterno is a good decent man and always has been. He was told by someone that they had witnessed an long time friend of his abusing a boy...he reported it to his superiors who did nothing...After Joe was fired he said I wish I had done more...yes he should have when it happened....
 
Navy Pride said:
To all you people who see blood in the water and want to lynch Coach Paterno, argurely the greatest coach in the history of NCAA football (409 wins) he should definitely stay
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What in the world does him being a great football coach have to do with this, at all?

....He committed no crime.....
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Few are suggesting he did. The question is more if he should stay or go. There's a laundry list of coaches who have been let go for things that aren't violations of the law. Most recently Jim Tressel.

He reported the abuse to the AD which is what is required of him
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Yes, it was the bare minimum required of him. Joe Paterno, the man that IS Penn State, the man that has astronomically more power and sway on that campus then the AD, reported it to the AD and...that was it. He continued to work along side Sandusky at events, continued to see him come into his weight room and his facilities, continued to watch him in the community without seemingly by any reports confronting him. And during it all never taking the time or having the thought to call the police when it became evident nothing was done to Sandusky, inquire to his "superiors" if and what was done, or anything of the sort.

Paterno did the bare minimum of what was required of him, and that was it. To me, that's not criminal...but I could damn well understand the University deciding they don't want the negative attention and questions coming their way by keeping him on.

...The AD or his superior notified the police in 1999....
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The incident in question was in 2002.

The AD nor his superior notified the police. The police were not notified until 2008 by the mother of a child.

If anyone is guilty it is the Police who did nothing.
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The police did act the moment they actually were made aware of it.
 
DiAnna said:
So far, there are at least four people under scrutiny for failure to report, all of whom work at the university: Paterno, the head of the athetic department to whom he reported the incident, the dean of the university who also had the incident reported to him, and an assistant coach, who was the original witness. The university board is furious with all of them, and I suspect all of them will soon be out of a job, if not formally charged with a crime.

As it should be.
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Sandusky is going to court. The President has been forced out I believe. The VP and AD are up on charges. Paterno has just been fired. Mcqueary is on the team still, though I know as of Wednesday he had told the WR corps to expect that he could be gone before the game this weekend (according to my cousin). Some are speculating that McQueary may be kept becuase the university fears a civil suit possibly due to McQueary being viewed as a whistleblower. Unlike Paterno, there were significant and realistic job related consequences had McQueary as a Grad Student went outside of the chain of Command. Though I don't know how much weight those theories of speculation may have and I wouldn't be shocked ot see McQueary gone soon as well.
 
herenow1 said:
Yea, I'm just wondering why more parents didn't come forth. Maybe the fact that they were 'underpriveledged' meant they didn't have caring parents around?
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A lot of parents simply don't know. There's not a giant sign over the kids head saying "I've been molested". Often times a parent may not find out till decades later.
 
Zyphlin said:
What in the world does him being a great football coach have to do with this, at all?



Few are suggesting he did. The question is more if he should stay or go. There's a laundry list of coaches who have been let go for things that aren't violations of the law. Most recently Jim Tressel.



Yes, it was the bare minimum required of him. Joe Paterno, the man that IS Penn State, the man that has astronomically more power and sway on that campus then the AD, reported it to the AD and...that was it. He continued to work along side Sandusky at events, continued to see him come into his weight room and his facilities, continued to watch him in the community without seemingly by any reports confronting him. And during it all never taking the time or having the thought to call the police when it became evident nothing was done to Sandusky, inquire to his "superiors" if and what was done, or anything of the sort.

Paterno did the bare minimum of what was required of him, and that was it. To me, that's not criminal...but I could damn well understand the University deciding they don't want the negative attention and questions coming their way by keeping him on.



The incident in question was in 2002.

The AD nor his superior notified the police. The police were not notified until 2008 by the mother of a child.



The police did act the moment they actually were made aware of it.
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Completely agree.

Teachers are mandated reporters. And that doesn't mean, "I told my boss." I'm very surprised that coaches aren't....they should be.
 
lpast said:
Joe Paterno is a good decent man and always has been. He was told by someone that they had witnessed an long time friend of his abusing a boy...he reported it to his superiors who did nothing...After Joe was fired he said I wish I had done more...yes he should have when it happened....
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Now this I agree with. Joe Paterno made a mistake. A mistake that in retrospect was horrible. At the same time, trying to remove my emotions from it, you have a grad student telling you that one of your longest lasting friends and someone you've put a lot of trust in was doing something henious like this. You don't want to believe it because it just makes no sense to you but you do your duty to report it to your superiors. You don't see anything done and, since its a long time friend, you just assume...maybe blissfully ignorant in a way...that nothing came of it and its all okay.

Taking the emotion out of "OMG 10 year old being anally raped, how did you not do anything, RARRR!" I can actually understand a situation where Paterno does what he did.

That doesn't mean I think its right, doesn't mean I don't think he should've been fired, doesn't mean his actions didn't play a part in this. It just means I can understand HOW he could've done what he did without it being done in such a way that was purposefully callous towards Children or dirty caring only about football and protecting his schools good name.

I do think Paterno is in general a good person. You don't last as many years as him with the sterling reputation of Penn State trying to instil a moral and upstanding character into the kids that came through there without it being somewhat true. I think the fact that, in hindsight, he realizes he SHOULD'VE done more is going to eat at him until the day he dies...and if he wasn't a good man I don't think that'd be the case.

Sadly though, good men must suffer for their actions just like bad men do, and Joe's gotta take his lumps for this one.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Maybe some did - is there proof?

If a parent knows their child is being molested and does nothing they deserve just as much judgment - maybe more.

But I'm not about to assume any of them knew unless evidence comes out as such.
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Perhaps the child was afraid to tell the parents.
Remember that in the "good ole days" molestation was not considered to be as dirty as it is today..
And "Papa Joe" is surely a product of the good ole days.
We fools have made him into a "god"...
A football coach.....Yet an innovator, a whistle blower is vilified.
We do have a ways to go !
 
I didn't turn him into anything - however - and don't see how his job as a football teacher should be relevant at all. . . yet it's the determining factor in how much people thin kthey give a damn . . .like all the college students who are 'protesting'

Too bad people don't protest NAMBLA with the same fervor.
 
A decent honest man when told his defensive cooridnator was having anal sex with a ten year old boy in the school's shower room would puke first. Then after reporting the offense to the atheletic director notices nothing has been done just carries on as usual? I don't think I could stomach seeing Sandusky's sick face after that. As head coach did Paterno even approach Sandusky?

No, this isn't a decent honest man.
 
Zyphlin said:
Now this I agree with. Joe Paterno made a mistake. A mistake that in retrospect was horrible. At the same time, trying to remove my emotions from it, you have a grad student telling you that one of your longest lasting friends and someone you've put a lot of trust in was doing something henious like this. You don't want to believe it because it just makes no sense to you but you do your duty to report it to your superiors. You don't see anything done and, since its a long time friend, you just assume...maybe blissfully ignorant in a way...that nothing came of it and its all okay.

Taking the emotion out of "OMG 10 year old being anally raped, how did you not do anything, RARRR!" I can actually understand a situation where Paterno does what he did.

That doesn't mean I think its right, doesn't mean I don't think he should've been fired, doesn't mean his actions didn't play a part in this. It just means I can understand HOW he could've done what he did without it being done in such a way that was purposefully callous towards Children or dirty caring only about football and protecting his schools good name.

I do think Paterno is in general a good person. You don't last as many years as him with the sterling reputation of Penn State trying to instil a moral and upstanding character into the kids that came through there without it being somewhat true. I think the fact that, in hindsight, he realizes he SHOULD'VE done more is going to eat at him until the day he dies...and if he wasn't a good man I don't think that'd be the case.

Sadly though, good men must suffer for their actions just like bad men do, and Joe's gotta take his lumps for this one.
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This is a reasonable poist, IMO.
 
Navy Pride said:
He was required to notify his superior....He did that..........The only thing he might be guilty of is a lack of good judgment which is not a crime............
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The law does not give a **** what he does within the organization. Note that Penn State is not a law unto itself. You did not read the linked article did you?
 
I'm thinking we need to wait until all the information has been gathered before making any definitive statements. I'm betting that this gets really ugly and that nobody is going to end up trying to defend anyone involved.
 
Zyphlin said:
Now this I agree with. Joe Paterno made a mistake. A mistake that in retrospect was horrible. At the same time, trying to remove my emotions from it, you have a grad student telling you that one of your longest lasting friends and someone you've put a lot of trust in was doing something henious like this. You don't want to believe it because it just makes no sense to you but you do your duty to report it to your superiors. You don't see anything done and, since its a long time friend, you just assume...maybe blissfully ignorant in a way...that nothing came of it and its all okay.

Taking the emotion out of "OMG 10 year old being anally raped, how did you not do anything, RARRR!" I can actually understand a situation where Paterno does what he did.

That doesn't mean I think its right, doesn't mean I don't think he should've been fired, doesn't mean his actions didn't play a part in this. It just means I can understand HOW he could've done what he did without it being done in such a way that was purposefully callous towards Children or dirty caring only about football and protecting his schools good name.

I do think Paterno is in general a good person. You don't last as many years as him with the sterling reputation of Penn State trying to instil a moral and upstanding character into the kids that came through there without it being somewhat true. I think the fact that, in hindsight, he realizes he SHOULD'VE done more is going to eat at him until the day he dies...and if he wasn't a good man I don't think that'd be the case.

Sadly though, good men must suffer for their actions just like bad men do, and Joe's gotta take his lumps for this one.
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I am at a loss as to how you take the emotion out of a 10 year old being molested. I hope I never reach a day where I do not react emotionally to that.

The thing about morality is it is not always easy. Sometimes it can be downright hard. But I don't think you can do the bare minimum in something like this and still be considered moral or a good man.
 
Redress said:
The law does not give a **** what he does within the organization. Note that Penn State is not a law unto itself. You did not read the linked article did you?
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I was born and raised in Western Pa. (Altoona) ......When I was a kid (1953) my dad had season ticket to the PS games.............Jopa was and asst coach then....He was a head coach for 46 years........Arguely the great coach in history...........There is not a coach in this country who cared more about the kids at PSU.........His kids graduate...............He has contributed millions to the university and charities.........He broke no law.......If he did he would be arrested and charged............All this has to be worth something..............

People are forgetting that the real guilty person here is Sandusky................
 
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Navy Pride said:
I was born and raised in Western Pa. (Altoona) ......When I was a kid (1953) my dad had season ticket to the PS games.............Jopa was and asst coach then....He was a head coach for 46 years........Arguely the great coach in history...........There is not a coach in this country who cared more about the kids at PSU.........His kids graduate...............He has contributed millions to the university and charities.........He broke no law.......If he did he would be arrested and charged............All this has to be worth something..............
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He is being considered for three possible criminal charges Navy. That was why I linked the article on it.

I do not give a **** how much he cared for his athletes. I care that he did not care enough for the health and wellbeing of children.
 
Navy Pride said:
I was born and raised in Western Pa. (Altoona) ......When I was a kid (1953) my dad had season ticket to the PS games.............Jopa was and asst coach then....He was a head coach for 46 years........Arguely the great coach in history...........There is not a coach in this country who cared more about the kids at PSU.........His kids graduate...............He has contributed millions to the university and charities.........He broke no law.......If he did he would be arrested and charged............All this has to be worth something..............
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Again, perhaps we should wait until the investigation is over. Even if not charged I'm betting he is a part of the massive lawsuit that will be filed. Fortunately for Sandusky he will have already be 6 feet under from where he hung himself.
 
1Perry said:
Again, perhaps we should wait until the investigation is over. Even if not charged I'm betting he is a part of the massive lawsuit that will be filed. Fortunately for Sandusky he will have already be 6 feet under from where he hung himself.
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Oh, he will be part of a number of lawsuits, and it will be rough winning a jury over for him.
 
Redress said:
I am at a loss as to how you take the emotion out of a 10 year old being molested. I hope I never reach a day where I do not react emotionally to that.
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Call it a weird thing for me. I'm able to detach myself from things at times. Sometime that's bad...it took me like 3 weeks for it finally to "hit" me that my grandmother died...sometimes its handy, like attempting to objectively view a situation. Its not so much taking the emotion away, but more making ones self look at it within the veil of that emotion clouding it.

The thing about morality is it is not always easy. Sometimes it can be downright hard. But I don't think you can do the bare minimum in something like this and still be considered moral or a good man.
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I'm one that doesn't think one act makes a man moral or immoral, good or bad, even if its a huge act like this. I also don't generally think acts stand alone. I definitely condemn his act, but without knowing fully all the circumstances around it and his thoughts I can think of a lot of ways that it becomes slightly more understandable. For example, what if some significant underling came out and told you they just saw one of your closest friends screwing a kid, something that just goes against everythig you know about the person...are you honestly going to act in the exact same way as if it was said to you about just some random co-worker? Have you never once heard something about a friend or a loved one that you so badly didn't want to believe that you were far more skeptical or dismissing of it then you would've been from just an aquaintence.

No way am I saying its right. I'm saying that one act alone without all the information and given his whole history to me doesn't make an "immoral man" in this case. It makes a man who made a greviously bad mistake who acted unethically with horrendous judgement on this issue.
 
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