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Should Joe Paterno stay or go?

Should Joe Paterno stay or go?

  • He should stay, he wasn't involved.

    Votes: 3 5.8%
  • He should stay, he did what his part by reporting it to somebody.

    Votes: 8 15.4%
  • He should go, he didn't do enough.

    Votes: 36 69.2%
  • He should go, he's ultimately responsible no matter what.

    Votes: 4 7.7%
  • I have no clue. Fill me in.

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Total voters
    52
Yes, the grad student and his parents should have gone to the cops. If you want to fire the grad student, that would be fine, too. The difference is the grad student had nothing to gain by covering it up. And, I'm less likely to hold a student accountable than a man of supposed position and responsibility. The janitor should have reported it. Paterno should have reported it. Campus security should have reported it. Some of them had the ability to stop it. Some only had the ability to tell the cops. Some had something to gain from a cover-up. All have various degrees of culpability. But, not all have positions of authority over a lot of other young men.

Paterno reported it up the chain to his boss...how can that be considered "covering it up"? If Paterno had wanted to cover it up, he would've told the grad student "I'll look into it" and then done nothing.
 
yeah. I once had the cops surround my house because some nosey nellie nextdoor with "good intentions" thought she was protecting the best interests of a child after she heard my kids running through the house squealing while they chased each other.

I think the guy that saw a man doing a 10year old boy was being more than a nosy Nellie neighbor. You protect the children and the adults can handle their inconvenience. In a matter like this you call the authorities and ask questions later.
 
since we are all ready to lynch Paterno for not going to the cops.... why didn't this grad student go to the cops? why isn't anyone crying for their head on a platter? why isn't anyone squealing "he should've done more"?

grad student = witness

Paterno and everyone above him = acting on hearsay

so who is really at fault here?

Topic is Paterno, but as I have already said, Paterno is not alone in fault.
 
I think the guy that saw a man doing a 10year old boy was being more than a nosy Nellie neighbor. You protect the children and the adults can handle their inconvenience. In a matter like this you call the authorities and ask questions later.

correct, YOU call the authorities. you don't go running to the coach and expect him to do it for you. If you want to hold someone responsible, hold the guy who actually witnessed the act responsible
 
Topic is Paterno, but as I have already said, Paterno is not alone in fault.

the fact that the grad student told Paterno and not the cops is relevent. If you want to blame someone for "not doing more"...blame him
 
the fact that the grad student told Paterno and not the cops is relevent. If you want to blame someone for "not doing more"...blame him

I do. That does not absolve Paterno for his inaction.
 
I do. That does not absolve Paterno for his inaction.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then. I just don't think that "guilt" should extend along the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon. Given that Paterno had no direct knowledge of the event, he did the right thing by reporting it to his superior.

to expect someone to go to the cops with an REO speedwagon "heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another" account of an alleged incident is ridiculous.

The only thing I can fault Paterno with is not telling the grad student to take his info to the cops.
 
Paterno should not only go. He should be indicted, and sent to prison, for helping to cover up the damage inflicted by a predator.
 
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then. I just don't think that "guilt" should extend along the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon. Given that Paterno had no direct knowledge of the event, he did the right thing by reporting it to his superior.

to expect someone to go to the cops with an REO speedwagon "heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another" account of an alleged incident is ridiculous.

The only thing I can fault Paterno with is not telling the grad student to take his info to the cops.

The difference is that Paterno was in the "chain of command".

Look at it this way, if I am in each person's place:

If I see some one molesting a kid, there is going to be an ass whupping, mine or the molester. I might get my ass kicked, but I am going to do my best to make them hurt. That stops the molesting. Then I am calling the cops.

If I have a subordinate/worker/whatever come to me and tell me they witnessed some one else on staff molesting a kid on the premises, I would have them call the cops while I called my boss.

If I am the AD and some one comes to me with the story, I ensure the accused is not alone near kids while I make sure the police are notified.

At every step, ensuring the police are notified is key. Not my boss(though he has to be notified to), not an AG to make a deal, but the police, as a crime had been allegedly committed.
 
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then. I just don't think that "guilt" should extend along the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon. Given that Paterno had no direct knowledge of the event, he did the right thing by reporting it to his superior.

to expect someone to go to the cops with an REO speedwagon "heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another" account of an alleged incident is ridiculous.

The only thing I can fault Paterno with is not telling the grad student to take his info to the cops.

I can only hope that if this was some random high school vice-principal or head gym teacher instead of legendary football coach JoePa you'd think otherwise, Oscar. Yes, you've probably looked up to him for a long time. But, he was wrong. The university should not want to be associated with any of that stuff regardless of the wins he's provided over the years. Winning football does not trump ignoring the rape of youths.
 
Paterno should have done more because of the nature of the action, alleged or otherwise.

It's not like he was told about some frat rats chugging vodka in the field house; the accusation was exponentially more significant. Should he have went to the cops right away, maybe so; but he also had to consider the aforementioned REO Speedwagon scenario.

I think he should have done more.

Lose his job? Have you seen Penn State's football team for the past 10 years?:mrgreen:


Big Al
 
The difference is that Paterno was in the "chain of command".

Look at it this way, if I am in each person's place:


If I have a subordinate/worker/whatever come to me and tell me they witnessed some one else on staff molesting a kid on the premises, I would have them call the cops while I called my boss.

.

which is why I said I fault Paterno for not telling the grad student to call the cops. It was not Paterno's place to call the cops. If I was a prosecutor, I wouldn't even call Paterno as a witness, since he witnessed nothing
 
Having worked around cops for the better part of my military career, I can tell you that the police don't generally take second hand reports of alleged crime very seriously.
 
Having worked around cops for the better part of my military career, I can tell you that the police don't generally take second hand reports of alleged crime very seriously.

Their job is to take that report and thoroughly investigate it..especially pedophillia or anything that endangers a child...and Oscar trust if Joe Paterno made that report in pa...the cops would have been RIGHT on it
 
I can only hope that if this was some random high school vice-principal or head gym teacher instead of legendary football coach JoePa you'd think otherwise, Oscar. Yes, you've probably looked up to him for a long time. But, he was wrong. The university should not want to be associated with any of that stuff regardless of the wins he's provided over the years. Winning football does not trump ignoring the rape of youths.

bad assumption. I have never given paterno much thought at all. I am not a Penn State fan and the fact that he is a winning coach has nothing to do with my opinion.

Paterno's only fault was that he didn't insist that the grad student go to the cops. Paterno was not a witness, he had no responsibility or right to go to the cops with a second hand story. OTOH, if the grad student had brought him a cellphone video of the incident, he should have gone to the cops with that
 
The emotional rush to judgment in this thread is quite fascinating... and a perfect example why emotion should be severely limited, if not entirely eliminated, from legal and non-legal justice.

I tend to agree with Oscar, though not entirely. The people who say and/or imply that Paterno did nothing are absolutely factually wrong. The question is, did he do enough? Now I read that the DA did hear of it, somehow, and that they chose to do nothing. Yet some people are foaming at the mouth that a DA was contacted instead of the police. As a friend of mine used to say, that's picking bird **** out of horse ****. It's not the military, there is no proper "chain of command", and any charges would have gone through the DA anyway. If the DA thought it worthy, they could have referred it back to the police.

People are emotional because kids are involved. I get that. Don't let your emotion cloud your otherwise good judgment. Don't be willing to hang 100 people in the hopes you get the relative few who actually are responsible for prolonging the situation. That may feel good in the short run, but that's not justice, either.
 
correct, YOU call the authorities. you don't go running to the coach and expect him to do it for you. If you want to hold someone responsible, hold the guy who actually witnessed the act responsible
But as a responsible party involved common sense would dictate that one call the Police and Paterno could have done so. If nothing come of the report at least he stays out of the hot seat. If the report is valid he becomes the hero and saves the day. This way he shows to be be smarmy and not a very good judge of ill situations. Doing the right thing may well not always be enough. Did no one even consider the boy who was being assaulted? Do no one consider the damage done to him or did they all line up to protect themselves from the fallout?
 
Did no one even consider the boy who was being assaulted? Do no one consider the damage done to him or did they all line up to protect themselves from the fallout?

ask the guy who saw him being assaulted and did nothing
 
The emotional rush to judgment in this thread is quite fascinating... and a perfect example why emotion should be severely limited, if not entirely eliminated, from legal and non-legal justice.

I tend to agree with Oscar, though not entirely. The people who say and/or imply that Paterno did nothing are absolutely factually wrong. The question is, did he do enough? Now I read that the DA did hear of it, somehow, and that they chose to do nothing. Yet some people are foaming at the mouth that a DA was contacted instead of the police. As a friend of mine used to say, that's picking bird **** out of horse ****. It's not the military, there is no proper "chain of command", and any charges would have gone through the DA anyway. If the DA thought it worthy, they could have referred it back to the police.

People are emotional because kids are involved. I get that. Don't let your emotion cloud your otherwise good judgment. Don't be willing to hang 100 people in the hopes you get the relative few who actually are responsible for prolonging the situation. That may feel good in the short run, but that's not justice, either.

I did not know people where making the claim paterno did nothing. That certainly is not the claim I have been hearing.
 
ask the guy who saw him being assaulted and did nothing

I actually still am amazed at this part. I just cannot imagine what goes through the mind of some one who sees a young kid being molested and just walks away. How? How can you just walk away?
 
I actually still am amazed at this part. I just cannot imagine what goes through the mind of some one who sees a young kid being molested and just walks away. How? How can you just walk away?

exactly, all this anger directed at Paterno and hardly any directed at the one guy who could have actually done something about it. My question is, how long did the guy wait before he told Paterno about it? I haven't seen a timeline of the events. was it the same day? was it the next day? was it the next week?
 
exactly, all this anger directed at Paterno and hardly any directed at the one guy who could have actually done something about it. My question is, how long did the guy wait before he told Paterno about it? I haven't seen a timeline of the events. was it the same day? was it the next day? was it the next week?

I believe it was the next day, but I would not swear to that.

The reason most of the talk centers on Paterno is because he is the famous person.
 
This whole thing demostrates the power of denial. A whole lot of people are declaring what they would have done and what some of the people should have done but don't be so fast to condemn. The monster in all this is Sandusky. He is a Class A predator. His guise and demeanor is devoted to covering tracks, manipulation, ingratiation and great works to elevate himself to just beyond suspicion. He creates an aura plausible deniability in the minds of those closest to him. Normal people just cannot get their head around the idea that this seemingly wonderful, normal man could do anything like this. They are driven to denial. These predators plan their whole lives around their obsession. It is crazy to think that they can pull it off for so long and not crack. Extreme narcissm I think is what holds them together. I gaurantee you that his wife and many others realized something wrong was going on but when they spent time with him, drank with him, coached football with him, they put it aside. Some didn't want to know, some feared to know and some just dimissed it. The nerve and boldness of these predators to do what they do is amazing, beyond belief for us. I know it is kind of hard to summon up some pity for Joe Paterno for his part. But I do have a some understanding.
 
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ask the guy who saw him being assaulted and did nothing
I would say that no one up the line from the first witness on did anything with the interests of the child in mind. It just appears that everyone did the least they had to do required by law to cover their own asses and hope that the alleged perpetrator never got caught so the school and all involved didn't get hung out to dry. Doing the least they could did in no way help that child. If you walked in on a child being raped would you call the police, talk to your dad, or would you try and help the child? I would have done all I could have to help the child in intimidate danger, that to me is the proper thing to do. Perhaps none of these people are all that proper.
 
I do believe that Joe Paterno should most likely retire due to age, not this scandal of which he is not guilty of doing anything other than reporting it to the wrong people. He most likely believed that it was nothing to be concerned with as a coach, since the report and investigation he THOUGHT was being conducted never amounted to criminal charges. Maybe he should have asked more questions about it, but then again maybe he figured it was being handled by competent and honorable investigators.
 
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