View Poll Results: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

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  • Whatever the "harassee" decides?

    0 0%
  • Something in the middle?

    3 21.43%
  • No such thing, toughen up!

    6 42.86%
  • Something else, please elaborate.

    5 35.71%
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Thread: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

  1. #1
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    Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    At one extreme, some say it should be solely up to the person being harassed. At the other extreme, some feel it shouldn't even exist as a concept. People should toughen up. Others feel it should be in the middle.

    Generic question, not specifically about any current situation or situation from the past.

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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    At one extreme, some say it should be solely up to the person being harassed. At the other extreme, some feel it shouldn't even exist as a concept. People should toughen up. Others feel it should be in the middle.

    Generic question, not specifically about any current situation or situation from the past.
    harassment (either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious. Such activities may be the basis for a lawsuit if due to discrimination based on race or sex, a violation on the statutory limitations on collection agencies, involve revenge by an ex-spouse, or be shown to be a form of blackmail ("I'll stop bothering you, if you'll go to bed with me"). The victim may file a petition for a "stay away" (restraining) order, intended to prevent contact by the offensive party. A systematic pattern of harassment by an employee against another worker may subject the employer to a lawsuit for failure to protect the worker.
    That's a pretty good legal definition. Seems like two things must be present: unwanted and persistent contact. The "unwanted" is up to the individual and "persistent" speaks for itself. Pretty clear.
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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's a pretty good legal definition. Seems like two things must be present: unwanted and persistent contact. The "unwanted" is up to the individual and "persistent" speaks for itself. Pretty clear.
    I wasn't searching for the legal definition. I was searching for each person's individual opinion.

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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I wasn't searching for the legal definition. I was searching for each person's individual opinion.
    What if your personal opinion coincides with the legal defination? The definition that MaggieD gave nails my opinion of it on the head.
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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    The legal version sounds almost like extortion. Or harassment followed is usually followed by blackmail. I have scenario for you if you really want to test your theories. What if a woman accuses a man of harassment but blackmails for money if they don't play along, would you pay them, or are they right? I am saying this because because women these days tend to accuses innocent men of rape when they had consensual sex, and juries buy it. Everyone these days are looking for ways of making a quick buck by doing absolutely nothing!
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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's a pretty good legal definition. Seems like two things must be present: unwanted and persistent contact. The "unwanted" is up to the individual and "persistent" speaks for itself. Pretty clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I wasn't searching for the legal definition. I was searching for each person's individual opinion.
    I think MaggieD reduced the lengthy definition down to something I agree with, too. Unwanted and persistent contact. Once it's been made reasonably clear (by a specific voice or by general social will) that a particular form of contact with an individual is unwanted and it persists, it's harassment. I can come into contact with 2 different people in the very same way. If one of those people asks me to stop, and I repeat the action to both. I've harassed the one who asked me to stop. If it's in the workplace, I may have harassed others as well because it may affect those around me who can't avoid seeing/hearing the behavior.

    I'd take it further and say that if my name's Abraham, and you consistently call me Abe even after I've asked you to stop - it's harassment. Intimidation doesn't just have to be sexual.
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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by stsburns View Post
    I have scenario for you if you really want to test your theories. What if a woman accuses a man of harassment but blackmails for money if they don't play along, would you pay them, or are they right? I am saying this because because women these days tend to accuses innocent men of rape when they had consensual sex, and juries buy it. Everyone these days are looking for ways of making a quick buck by doing absolutely nothing!
    Let me see if I've got this straight:

    #1 Woman accuses a man of harrassment.
    #2 Blackmails for money (if they don't play along with what?)
    #3 Somehow leads to this woman accusing him (an innocent man) of rape
    #4 Man is convicted

    You're questions are: "Would you pay them?" and "Are they right?"

    Never pay a blackmailer. The blackmail will never stop, and, by paying, you've made yourself look guilty. Go to the authorities, tell them the whole story, and ask them to help you set up a sting. Anyone who threatens blackmail is wrong.

    If you're right that "women these days tend to accuse innocent men of rape," then I'd say that a lot of men are hanging around with the wrong crowd.

    Remember, rape is a criminal offense. The DA isn't going to charge someone with rape when: there's no proof beyond "she says"...woman didn't go to the hospital for a rape kit...didn't immediately tell her friends...has no evidence of physical harm (i.e., photos)...and later, demands money not to bring the charge...combine that with a guy who goes straight to the authorities as soon as the words pass her lips and the one in trouble is her. IMO.

    Edit: Not sure where harrassment comes in, though.
    Last edited by MaggieD; 11-06-11 at 09:20 AM.
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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Let me see if I've got this straight:

    #1 Woman accuses a man of harrassment.
    #2 Blackmails for money (if they don't play along with what?)
    #3 Somehow leads to this woman accusing him (an innocent man) of rape
    #4 Man is convicted

    You're questions are: "Would you pay them?" and "Are they right?"

    Never pay a blackmailer. The blackmail will never stop, and, by paying, you've made yourself look guilty. Go to the authorities, tell them the whole story, and ask them to help you set up a sting. Anyone who threatens blackmail is wrong.
    well that's pretty standard corporate policy in alot of places. cheaper to pay the woman than pay the lawyer.

    If you're right that "women these days tend to accuse innocent men of rape," then I'd say that a lot of men are hanging around with the wrong crowd.
    hmm, turn this logic around and point out that real rape victims shouldn't have been hanging out with the wrong guys...?

    Remember, rape is a criminal offense. The DA isn't going to charge someone with rape when: there's no proof beyond "she says"...woman didn't go to the hospital for a rape kit...didn't immediately tell her friends...has no evidence of physical harm (i.e., photos)...and later, demands money not to bring the charge...combine that with a guy who goes straight to the authorities as soon as the words pass her lips and the one in trouble is her. IMO.
    one would hope so. but sympathy is a powerful thing, and tends to go straight to the woman whereas the man is assumed guilty.

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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    What if your personal opinion coincides with the legal defination? The definition that MaggieD gave nails my opinion of it on the head.
    Then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes a legal definition mirrors my opinion, also. Just say so, so that you don't appear to be one of those people who blindly thinks that the law is always right.

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    Re: Who should decide what standards for things like harassment, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I think MaggieD reduced the lengthy definition down to something I agree with, too. Unwanted and persistent contact. Once it's been made reasonably clear (by a specific voice or by general social will) that a particular form of contact with an individual is unwanted and it persists, it's harassment. I can come into contact with 2 different people in the very same way. If one of those people asks me to stop, and I repeat the action to both. I've harassed the one who asked me to stop. If it's in the workplace, I may have harassed others as well because it may affect those around me who can't avoid seeing/hearing the behavior.
    You make a good point. Upon further thought I am glad that she provided the legal definition as it adds to discussion, but still would like to hear people's individual opinions as to what they think the standard should be.

    As far as the legal definition goes, "unwanted and persistent" almost says option #1 in the poll, "whatever the harassee says it is". "Persistent" being the only saving grace


    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I'd take it further and say that if my name's Abraham, and you consistently call me Abe even after I've asked you to stop - it's harassment. Intimidation doesn't just have to be sexual.
    The question is generic in nature. It can be ANY kind of harassment, i.e. sexual, racial, whatever.

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