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Sheriff Joe Arpaio: Good guy, or bad guy?

Sheriff Joe Arpaio: Good guy, or bad guy?

  • Good guy.

    Votes: 17 36.2%

  • Meh, some of each.

    Votes: 9 19.1%

  • Bad guy.

    Votes: 17 36.2%

  • Who is Sheriff Joe Arpaio?

    Votes: 4 8.5%
  • Total voters
    47
radcen said:
Is anybody really naive enough to believe that lack of prosecution/conviction is somehow proof of innocence?

And spare me the "innocent until proven guilty" myth crap.
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Ok, your guilty of "you name it". We can start from their in all of your cases.
You may not like our system, but until it changes it what we have to work with. It when we selectively choose to not apply the current law standard that makes it a week case in debating.
 
rathi said:
Apario is innocent until proven guilty. I'll not call him a criminal until it is proven in a court of law. The point is that his office has engaged in numerous public acts of corruption for years under his watch and the only defense against his complicity is being unaware of what was going on. If Arpaio is innocent he is incompetent, if guilty he is a criminal. Either way, he is not fit to lead the Sheriff office.
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Funny. most Maricopa county voters don't agree with you. He has won every election to date.
 
Kal'Stang said:
The FBI did this same type of investigation not to long ago. Again, last I heard the FBI had cleared him of those charges. Just because Obama targets him again doesn't mean squat.
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If the federal government investigates you. There's a good chance that it means something.

Kal'Stang said:
I already addressed this in post #23.
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There should not be a culture of corruption within police forces. Trust is important, but so is serving the public good.

mike2810 said:
Same way Obama says he knew nothing or was not involved in Fast and Furious. Obama claims he will get to the bottom of it. Sherriff Joe has taken action to correct deficiencies in his office. 30 some have lost jobs.
So let me ask, if Sherrif Joe as a Democrat, would he get a pass like Obama and Holder?
Until Joe is convicted in a court of law, he is innocent. I will even give Obama and Holder that much. Either way, you willing to apply the same standard to Obama and Holder, that is they are incompentent?
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Don't deflect. I think Fast and Furious shows profound incompetence, but we aren't talking about that.

mike2810 said:
Funny. most Maricopa county voters don't agree with you. He has won every election to date.
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So what if he's popular? That doesn't make him good. It just means most voters think that he's good.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
If the federal government investigates you. There's a good chance that it means something.



There should not be a culture of corruption within police forces. Trust is important, but so is serving the public good.



Don't deflect. I think Fast and Furious shows profound incompetence, but we aren't talking about that.



So what if he's popular? That doesn't make him good. It just means most voters think that he's good.
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Good is subjective. Your definition for a LE may differ from mine.
Not trying to deflect. Mearly pointing out that some use double standards for debating.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
But - he's not good . . . because you don't think he's good?
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The man wanted to set up checkpoints all over his county just to stop cars and search them for drugs. He has no regard for constitutionality, just an authoritarian nutjob in favor of an ultra police state.
 
mike2810 said:
Funny. most Maricopa county voters don't agree with you. He has won every election to date.
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Hey Galileo, most of the people in the world disagree with you.

Appeals to population are so silly, on top of being fallacious tripe.
 
Lachean said:
The man wanted to set up checkpoints all over his county just to stop cars and search them for drugs. He has no regard for constitutionality, just an authoritarian nutjob in favor of an ultra police state.
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So that makes him a bad person? No one's perfect. He has a few questionable views but so does everyone.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
If the federal government investigates you. There's a good chance that it means something.
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Yeah, could mean lots of things. Could mean lots of people that have an agenda complained enough that something public had to be done. Could mean that powerful people (like Obama) are pushing thier own agenda also. Lots of innocent people have been persecuted just because of thier beliefs before and will be again in the future.

DrunkenAsparagus said:
There should not be a culture of corruption within police forces. Trust is important, but so is serving the public good.
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There should not be a lot of things in this world. But they exist. But if we live our lives suspecting everyone and never trusting anyone then we might as well throw in the towel as human beings right now.
 
Lachean said:
The man wanted to set up checkpoints all over his county just to stop cars and search them for drugs. He has no regard for constitutionality, just an authoritarian nutjob in favor of an ultra police state.
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spin, spin , spin.
Care to provide proof? They also set up DUI checkpoints, oh my!
 
Lachean said:
Hey Galileo, most of the people in the world disagree with you.

Appeals to population are so silly, on top of being fallacious tripe.
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what a stupid post.
Prove that the world disagrees with me. I was mearly responding to DA on the fact that Joe A. has been elected each time he as come up for election.
 
I've always found it interesting that the more vigorously a person defends "law-and-order" the more willing they are to abandon law-and-order when it comes to procedure in an attempt to reach their goal.
 
mike2810 said:
Good is subjective. Your definition for a LE may differ from mine.
Not trying to deflect. Mearly pointing out that some use double standards for debating.
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Aunt Spiker said:
But - he's not good . . . because you don't think he's good?
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We can agree on some standards for "good" or that defeats the entire premise of the site. My point is that popularity is a poor standard for or poor evidence for meeting a standard for good
 
Kal'Stang said:
Yeah, could mean lots of things. Could mean lots of people that have an agenda complained enough that something public had to be done. Could mean that powerful people (like Obama) are pushing thier own agenda also. Lots of innocent people have been persecuted just because of thier beliefs before and will be again in the future.
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This is very true, and it should be combated. What evidence of bias was there, in the investigation?

Kal'Stang said:
There should not be a lot of things in this world. But they exist. But if we live our lives suspecting everyone and never trusting anyone then we might as well throw in the towel as human beings right now.
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Injustice being commonplace does not excuse injustice. If Arpaio felt uncomfortable about looking into his subordinate's wrongdoing, which is understandable. He could have reported it.
 
mike2810 said:
spin, spin , spin.
Care to provide proof? They also set up DUI checkpoints, oh my!
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Yeah, there was a segment in the War on Drug's episode of Penn and Teller's Bull**** dedicated to him where he admitted it in his "we have to protect people from themselves" tripe.

No spin there, just the facts. A DUI checkpoint is very different from stopping every citizen and searching their vehicle without warrant or reason. The fact that you support this tells me all I need to know about you.

mike2810 said:
what a stupid post. Prove that the world disagrees with me.
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I never said the world did. I was commenting on how most people alive thought Galileo was wrong in his time, and how their majority opinion is meaningless. Saying that you're right because most people agree with you is a logical fallacy (appeal to population) ALL OF THIS of course went over your head just makes your calling my post "stupid" just priceless.

mike2810 said:
I was mearly responding to DA on the fact that Joe A. has been elected each time he as come up for election.
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No, you were committing a logical fallacy. It doesn't matter how popular he is.
 
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DrunkenAsparagus said:
Injustice being commonplace does not excuse injustice. If Arpaio felt uncomfortable about looking into his subordinate's wrongdoing, which is understandable. He could have reported it.
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Bingo.

Besides, Arpairo's claim on any wrongdoing by his subordinates without his knowledge just doesn't wash. He prides himself on being "the man", the one in control and knowing everything that goes on in his department... until knowing everything suddenly becomes inconvenient, apparently. Does anybody really think he is fine with NOT knowing what goes on in his department? Puh-leeze.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
We can agree on some standards for "good" or that defeats the entire premise of the site. My point is that popularity is a poor standard for or poor evidence for meeting a standard for good
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My point is if Joe A. was not doing a "good" job, he would not have been relected numerous times. Maricopa county has a very diverse voting population.

I agree someone can be popular and not very good at the job. Some of our current elected officials come to mind.
 
radcen said:
Bingo.

Besides, Arpairo's claim on any wrongdoing by his subordinates without his knowledge just doesn't wash. He prides himself on being "the man", the one in control and knowing everything that goes on in his department... until knowing everything suddenly becomes inconvenient, apparently. Does anybody really think he is fine with NOT knowing what goes on in his department? Puh-leeze.
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Maybe your right, maybe your not. I will give you that much that the sheriff may know more than he is saying.

Just remember your statement when it comes to other govt. officals that you think are ok.
 
mike2810 said:
Maybe your right, maybe your not. I will give you that much that the sheriff may know more than he is saying.

Just remember your statement when it comes to other govt. officals that you think are ok.
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Generally I do, but a alot of it depends on how they portray themselves.
 
mike2810 said:
My point is if Joe A. was not doing a "good" job, he would not have been relected numerous times. Maricopa county has a very diverse voting population.

I agree someone can be popular and not very good at the job. Some of our current elected officials come to mind.
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You can be popular, get reelected numerous times, and still be bad. FDR won four elections, and this does nothing to dissuade me from thinking that he was a bad President. Elections are fundamentally a popularity contest, and while I think they are generally the best way of picking public officials, arguing that they automatically make someone a good leader is just making an argumentum ad populum.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
You can be popular, get reelected numerous times, and still be bad. FDR won four elections, and this does nothing to dissuade me from thinking that he was a bad President. Elections are fundamentally a popularity contest, and while I think they are generally the best way of picking public officials, arguing that they automatically make someone a good leader is just making an argumentum ad populum.
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You made your opinion clear. I will agree that many elections are a popularity contest. I have been in AZ sine 89 and have read,heard,seen what Sheriff Arpaio has done and accomplished. He has an ego. Loves being in front of the camera. That said, he has carried out many policies that many, including myself, find to be appropriate, cost effective, and the right thing to do. It is better than lip service many elected officials give the public.
 
mike2810 said:
You made your opinion clear. I will agree that many elections are a popularity contest. I have been in AZ sine 89 and have read,heard,seen what Sheriff Arpaio has done and accomplished. He has an ego. Loves being in front of the camera. That said, he has carried out many policies that many, including myself, find to be appropriate, cost effective, and the right thing to do. It is better than lip service many elected officials give the public.
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You would call a man who literally lost a hundred million dollars, "cost effective"? Not to mention the 50 million the county has paid in a lawsuits as a result of his actions.
 
rathi said:
You would call a man who literally lost a hundred million dollars, "cost effective"? Not to mention the 50 million the county has paid in a lawsuits as a result of his actions.
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It is not hunders of millions. if it is please provide the link.
I see you from California. So your LE never had any claims against them? I did a quick search and California seems to have quite a few. So your point on settlements is mute.
You gave your opinion, I gave mine. My statement for cost effective was in looking at what MCSO has done. Yes it is an opinion.
Is tent city not cost effective? Or are you one of those that feel we need resort prisons?
Some critize MCSO raid on business for ID theft. I feel the operation is cost effective.

So tell me, is California LE cost effective? How much has your State paid out?
 
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