Are all religions cults?

Josie said:

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What were they then, Josie?

Caine said:

I learned more recently about the Epic of Gilgamesh and how it has stories in it that are almost exactly mirrored in the Old Testament of the Bible.....(Creation and "The Flood")

Couple that with how Christianity came after, yet has extremely similar theories from previous Roman and other Pagan religions... and Ive come to the conclusion that somewhere along the line people made their own stories and those stories turned into a way to wield power over the people.

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Creation and Flood myths are an almost universal component of all religions, yep.

99percenter said:

Christians also used the bible to justify slavery. It was Lincoln who was either an atheist or deist that led the fight to emancipate them. Just goes to show that people that dont subscribe to a religion have more morals.

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Alright, I'm beginning to think you're either a poe, or intentionally being obtuse. I'm a deist and almost all of what you're saying is blatant hackery and generalizations based on an extremely small grain of truth.

1) One can justify slavery in many ways. It doesn't have to be through religion.

2) The abolitionist movement actually arose in large part from the Second Great Awakening - that's right, it was motivated in large part by religion.

3) Your final sentence has about as much truth to it as the belief that on the part of some religious fundamentalists that nonreligious people don't have morals.

zgoldsmith23 said:

What were they then, Josie?

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Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and three were Roman Catholics (C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[13][14][15] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[16] A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[17] - Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Next time take 2 minutes and look for yourself, you mite learn something without looking ahem... uninformed.

Blackdog said:

Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and three were Roman Catholics (C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[13][14][15] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[16] A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[17] - Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Next time take 2 minutes and look for yourself, you mite learn something without looking ahem... uninformed.

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Interesting, I think your argument is better pointed to 99percenter, but, whatever. Did I necessarily disagree? No. I simply asked Josie to state her belief on what the FF were.

I bet if I looked in your history I'd see "Founding fathers religion"

Anyway, here is an interesting article:

Religion and the Founding Fathers

zgoldsmith23 said:

Interesting, I think your argument is better pointed to 99percenter, but, whatever. Did I necessarily disagree? No. I simply asked Josie to state her belief on what the FF were.

I bet if I looked in your history I'd see "Founding fathers religion"

Anyway, here is an interesting article:

Religion and the Founding Fathers

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So 8 out of 55 may or may not have been what we would consider a Christian.

So what? It does not change anything that was stated at all and actually backs up her reaction to his statement.

99percenter said:

Religion is evil and has been used as a excuse to commit all kinds of heinous acts. The nazis were christian and committed heinous acts in the name of Christianity.

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Most of our founding fathers were atheists and deists and realized the evils of religion so they decided to create a secular nation. Religion is a form of oppression. We have a church that says condoms make the HIV problem in africa worst. Religious fanatics here spend more money stopping gays from getting married instead of donating to charity or helping the poor. They also want to indoctrinate our children with false creationists theories. A society w/o religion like norway is a much happier one.

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:shock:
Wait, did you say that the Nazis were Christian and committed the Holocaust and WWII in the name of Christianity?
/facepalmx1000
Did you say that the founders of the US were atheists?
/facepalmx100

Read you history. Seriously. Just read it. There's too much fail here

99percenter said:

You don't have to rebut anything. A true atheist would agree with all i have to say.

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All of my friends, either religious or atheists would be disgusted by your comments. Even one of my most hardcore atheist friend, the guy that doesn't even talk to his family due to a disagreement about religion (his family was Catholic) would be shocked.

I don't think even Ikari would agree with those two statements

Proud South Korean said:

"Religion is the root of all evil in the world"

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Actually the proper term is "Money is the root of all evil in the world". Not "religion".

You're second one however is correct.

zgoldsmith23 said:

Interesting, I think your argument is better pointed to 99percenter, but, whatever. Did I necessarily disagree? No. I simply asked Josie to state her belief on what the FF were.

I bet if I looked in your history I'd see "Founding fathers religion"

Anyway, here is an interesting article:

Religion and the Founding Fathers

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I see you're one of those types. You were just checking to see what someone else thought. Sure....bull****.

Proud South Korean said:

:shock:
Wait, did you say that the Nazis were Christian and committed the Holocaust and WWII in the name of Christianity?
/facepalmx1000
Did you say that the founders of the US were atheists?
/facepalmx100

Read you history. Seriously. Just read it. There's too much fail here

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Yes, hitler was catholic and committed the holocaust in the name of Christianity. And i said the founders were either deists or atheists and didn't take part in any religion. Ben franklin was a confirmed atheist.

99percenter said:

Yes, hitler was catholic and committed the holocaust in the name of Christianity. And i said the founders were either deists or atheists and didn't take part in any religion. Ben franklin was a confirmed atheist.

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Huh... I thought the founders were jelly like aliens who were mono-theists and only took part in zug-zug religion. Franklin was a zug-zug addict.

The mainstream religions are not cults.

The word cult in current popular usage usually refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.[1] The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The word was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a divinity and derived from the French culte or Latin cultus, ‘worship’, from cult-, ‘inhabited, cultivated, worshipped,’ from the verb colere, 'care, cultivation'.

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Popularizing the word: Anti-cult movements and their impact

Main articles: Anti-cult movement and Christian countercult movement

In the 1940s, the long held opposition by some established Christian denominations to non-Christian religions or/and supposedly heretical Christian sects crystallized into a more organized "Christian countercult movement" in the United States. For those belonging to the movement, all new religious groups deemed outside of Christian orthodoxy were considered "cults".[7] As more foreign religious traditions found their way into the United States, the religious movements they brought with them attracted even fiercer resistance. This was especially true for movements incorporating mystical or exotic new beliefs and those with charismatic, authoritarian leaders.
In the early 1970s, a secular opposition movement to "cult" groups had taken shape. The organizations that formed the secular "Anti-cult movement" (ACM) often acted on behalf of relatives of "cult" converts who did not believe their loved ones could have altered their lives so drastically by their own free will. A few psychologists and sociologists working in this field lent credibility to their disbelief by suggesting that "brainwashing techniques" were used to maintain the loyalty of "cult" members.[8] The belief that cults "brainwashed" their members became a unifying theme among cult critics and in the more extreme corners of the Anti-cult movement techniques like the sometimes forceful "deprogramming" of "cult members" becoming standard practice.[9]

In the meantime, a handful of high profile crimes were committed by groups identified as cults, or by the groups' leaders. The mass suicides committed by members of the People's Temple in Jonestown, Guyana, and the Manson Family murders are perhaps the most prominent examples in American popular culture. The publicity of these crimes, as amplified by the Anti-cult movement, influenced the popular perception of new religious movements[citation needed]. In the mass media, and among average citizens, "cult" gained an increasingly negative connotation, becoming associated with things like kidnapping, brainwashing, psychological abuse, sexual abuse and other criminal activity, and mass suicide. While most of these negative qualities usually have real documented precedents in the activities of a very small minority of new religious groups, mass culture often extends them to any religious group viewed as culturally deviant, however peaceful or law abiding it may be.[10][11][12]
In the late 1980s, psychologists and sociologists started to abandon theories like brainwashing and mind-control. While scholars may believe that various less dramatic coercive psychological mechanisms could influence group members, they came to see conversion to new religious movements principally as an act of a rational choice.[13][14] Most sociologists and scholars of religion also began to reject the word "cult" altogether because of its negative connotations in mass culture. Some began to advocate the use of new terms like "new religious movement", "alternative religion" or "novel religion" to describe most of the groups that had come to be referred to as "cults",[15] yet none of these terms have had much success in popular culture or in the media. Other scholars have pushed to redeem the word as one fit for neutral academic discourse,[16] while researchers aligned with the Anti-cult movement have attempted to reduce the negative connotations being associated with all such groups by classifying only some as "destructive cults".

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Cult - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

99percenter said:

Christians also used the bible to justify slavery. It was Lincoln who was either an atheist or deist ..........................

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Are you even aware of how completely ignorant this statement sounds? Does 99percent refer to the number of questions that you got wrong on your last history exam?

99percenter said:

Yes, hitler was catholic and committed the holocaust in the name of Christianity. And i said the founders were either deists or atheists and didn't take part in any religion. Ben franklin was a confirmed atheist.

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Right! The Holocaust was committed in the name of Christianity? This is almost unworthy of a response, but since I feel that it is my civic duty to help educate the unwashed masses, here goes. :roll: Here are a couple of quotes from Hitler himself regarding Christianity. You be the judge, if you are cognitively capable:

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity." - Adolf Hitler, 1934


Hitler was very clear about what he had in store for Christians: "Christianity is an invention of sick brains....The war will be over one day. I shall then consider that my life's final task will be to solve the religious problem…For the moment I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them." - Adolf Hitler, 1940

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FluffyNinja said:

Are you even aware of how completely ignorant this statement sounds? Does 99percent refer to the number of questions that you got wrong on your last history exam?

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" For much of his life, Lincoln was undoubtedly Deist.[46][47] In his younger days he openly challenged orthodox religions, but as he matured and became a candidate for public office, he kept his Deist views more to himself, and would sometimes attend Presbyterian services with his wife Mary Todd Lincoln. He loved to read the Bible, and even quoted from it, but he almost never made reference to Jesus, and is not known to have ever indicated a belief in the divinity of Jesus.
Evidence against Lincoln's ever being Christian includes offerings from two of Lincoln's most intimate friends, Ward Hill Lamon and William H. Herndon. Both Herndon and Lamon published biographies of their former colleague after his assassination relating their personal recollections of him. Each denied Lincoln's adherence to Christianity and characterized his religious beliefs as deist or atheist."

Religious affiliations of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There ya go.

99percenter said:

" For much of his life, Lincoln was undoubtedly Deist.[46][47] In his younger days he openly challenged orthodox religions, but as he matured and became a candidate for public office, he kept his Deist views more to himself, and would sometimes attend Presbyterian services with his wife Mary Todd Lincoln. He loved to read the Bible, and even quoted from it, but he almost never made reference to Jesus, and is not known to have ever indicated a belief in the divinity of Jesus.
Evidence against Lincoln's ever being Christian includes offerings from two of Lincoln's most intimate friends, Ward Hill Lamon and William H. Herndon. Both Herndon and Lamon published biographies of their former colleague after his assassination relating their personal recollections of him. Each denied Lincoln's adherence to Christianity and characterized his religious beliefs as deist or atheist."

Religious affiliations of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There ya go.

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I'll take Lincoln at his own word. Ever read his Second Inaugural address? I'm certain that you have not, but, as I said, I feel the need to help enlighten the unwashed masses:

"Both [North and South] read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes." - Abraham Lincoln, March 1865, 2nd Inaugural Address


Even more to the point was his reply when a minister from the North told the president he "hoped the Lord is on our side." Responded Lincoln, "I am not at all concerned about that. . . . But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lord's side."

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Sure doesn't sound like someone who didn't espouse any specific religious beliefs. :shrug: But please, don't let things like facts, authentic quotations, and actual accounts get in the way of your trolling and hackery. :lol:

zgoldsmith23 said:

What were they then, Josie?

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Most were Christians of several different denominations.

Lincoln quotes on religion:

That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or any denomination of Christians in particular.
--July 31, 1846 Handbill Replying to Charges of Infidelity

I do not think I could myself, be brought to support a man for office, whom I knew to be an open enemy of, and scoffer at, religion.
--July 31, 1846 Handbill Replying to Charges of Infidelity

In their enlightened belief, nothing stamped with the Divine image and likeness was sent into the world to be trodden on, and degraded, and imbruted by its fellows.
--August 17, 1858 Speech at Lewistown, Illinois

To His care commending you, as I hope in your prayers you will commend me, I bid you an affectionate farewell.
--February 11, 1861 Farewell Address

Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance on Him, who has never yet forsaken this favored land, are still competent to adjust, in the best way, all our present difficulty.
--March 4, 1861 First Inaugural Address

The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong.
--September 1862 Meditation on the Divine Will

If I had had my way, this war would never have been commenced; If I had been allowed my way this war would have ended before this, but we find it still continues; and we must believe that He permits it for some wise purpose of his own, mysterious and unknown to us; and though with our limited understandings we may not be able to comprehend it, yet we cannot but believe, that he who made the world still governs it.
--October 26, 1862 Reply to Eliza Gurney

Nevertheless, amid the greatest difficulties of my Administration, when I could not see any other resort, I would place my whole reliance on God, knowing that all would go well, and that He would decide for the right.
--October 24, 1863 Remarks to the Baltimore Presbyterian Synod

On principle I dislike an oath which requires a man to swear he has not done wrong. It rejects the Christian principle of forgiveness on terms of repentance. I think it is enough if the man does no wrong hereafter.
--February 5, 1864 Memorandum to Secretary Stanton

If God now wills the removal of a great wrong, and wills also that we of the North as well as you of the South, shall pay fairly for our complicity in that wrong, impartial history will find therein new cause to attest and revere the justice and goodness of God.
--April 4, 1864 Letter to Albert Hodges

To read in the Bible, as the word of God himself, that "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread," and to preach therefrom that, "In the sweat of other mans faces shalt thou eat bread," to my mind can scarcely be reconciled with honest sincerity.
--May 30, 1864 Letter to George Ide and Others

I am very glad indeed to see you to-night, and yet I will not say I thank you for this call, but I do most sincerely thank Almighty God for the occasion on which you have called.
--July 7, 1864 Response to a Serenade

Enough is known of Army operations within the last five days to claim our especial gratitude to God; while what remains undone demands our most sincere prayers to, and reliance upon, Him, without whom, all human effort is vain.
--May 10, 1864 Telegram Press Release

We hoped for a happy termination of this terrible war long before this; but God knows best, and has ruled otherwise. We shall yet acknowledge His wisdom and our own error therein.
--September 4, 1864 Letter to Eliza Gurney

I am much indebted to the good Christian people of the country for their constant prayers and consolations; and to no one of them, more than to yourself.
--September 4, 1864 Letter to Eliza Gurney

All the good the Saviour gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.
--September 7, 1864 Reply to Loyal Colored People of Baltimore upon Presentation of a Bible

Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully.
--March 4, 1865 Inaugural Address

Men are not flattered by being shown that there has been a difference of purpose between the Almighty and them. To deny it, however, in this case, is to deny that there is a God governing the world.
--March 15, 1865 Letter to Thurlow Weed

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/quotes.htm

That totally sounds like an atheist. *eyeroll*

99percenter said:

Ben franklin was a confirmed atheist.

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Weird.

"You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been questioned upon it. But I cannot take your curiosity amiss, and shall endeavour in a few words to gratify it. Here is my creed. I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His providence. That He ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable service we render Him is doing good to His other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental principles of all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and better observed; especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in His government of the world with any particular marks of His displeasure.

"I shall only add, respecting myself, that, having experienced the goodness of that Being in conducting me prosperously through a long life, I have no doubt of its continuance in the next, without the smallest conceit of meriting it... I confide that you will not expose me to criticism and censure by publishing any part of this communication to you. I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiments, without reflecting on them for those that appeared to me unsupportable and even absurd. All sects here, and we have a great variety, have experienced my good will in assisting them with subscriptions for building their new places of worship; and, as I never opposed any of their doctrines, I hope to go out of the world in peace with them all."


[Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale, shortly before his death; from "Benjamin Franklin" by Carl Van Doren, the October, 1938 Viking Press edition pages 777-778 Also see Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94]

I do feel a bit sorry for these college kids, like 99percenter here, who fall under the spells of their left wing professors who are tying to push an agenda. They just keep sendin' 'em out into the world spouting the same old worn out talking points, and unsubstantiated fertilizer. *Sighs*......... I suppose I'll just have to redouble my efforts. :lol:

FluffyNinja said:

I'll take Lincoln at his own word. Ever read his Second Inaugural address? I'm certain that you have not, but, as I said, I feel the need to help enlighten the unwashed masses:


Sure doesn't sound like someone who didn't espouse any specific religious beliefs. :shrug: But please, don't let things like facts, authentic quotations, and actual accounts get in the way of your trolling and hackery. :lol:

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Of course he isn't going to say that in public. The american people back than were very religious just like they are now. Lincoln was a smart, intelligent man just like our founding fathers. He didn't believe in any particular religion.

Yes, hitler was catholic and committed the holocaust in the name of Christianity.

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No he wasn't and no he didn't. He did invoke Christianity in order to win over conservative forces in Germany. He constantly spoke of Western European culture and Germany being a Christian nation. He didn't believe any of that but he was quick to use it to gain political power.

He committed the holocaust in the name of white supremecy and racial purity. There is nothing biblical of non-European races being inferior to Germans.

FluffyNinja said:

I do feel a bit sorry for these college kids, like 99percenter here, who fall under the spells of their left wing professors who are tying to push an agenda. They just keep sendin' 'em out into the world spouting the same old worn out talking points, and unsubstantiated fertilizer. *Sighs*......... I suppose I'll just have to redouble my efforts. :lol:

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No professor says stuff this dumb. No professor of history, at least.

99percenter said:

Yes, hitler was catholic and committed the holocaust in the name of Christianity. And i said the founders were either deists or atheists and didn't take part in any religion. Ben franklin was a confirmed atheist.

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Where did you learn history? The Internet?
No wonder US education is so messed up these days