Are all religions cults?

Jerry said:

Yeah I tried passing that line in an English class also. Didn't work.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I follow you. Surely you are not suggesting that a dictionary published in the time of say Chaucer would contain the same definitions as a dictionary of today.

jimbo said:

I'm not sure I follow you. Surely you are not suggesting that a dictionary published in the time of say Chaucer would contain the same definitions as a dictionary of today.

Click to expand...

You'll be sure to let me know when Webster becomes like Wikipedia, where just anyone can change anything they like, to whatever they like, instead of having a well vetted standard by qualified, credible professionals for all to follow.

Jerry said:

Each religion matches at least one definition of 'occult', so I have to agree; 'occult' can apply to any and every religion.

Click to expand...

exactly unless somebody wants to go by some MADE UP version, religions are cults :shrug:

Objective-J said:

exactly unless somebody wants to go by some MADE UP version, religions are cults :shrug:

Click to expand...

And that's why we have dictionaries: people make **** up.

Jerry said:

And that's why we have dictionaries: people make **** up.

Click to expand...

agreed 100%

Well according to the dictionary anything at all that someone likes or is devoited to is a cult...

1: formal religious veneration : worship

2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>

5: a. great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b. the object of such devotion
c. a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion - Cult - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So anything people are devoted to is a cult. I am good with that.

RadicalModerate said:

Okay, to answer the question at least somewhat thoughtfully, I've found the main differences from an cult recovery website, CultClinic.org

(Cults on the left, religions on the right, fyi)

Deceit in recruitment	Information offered up front
Totalitarian	Allows freedom of thought and members have a say
Destroys that family unit	Promotes the family unit
Isolates its members	Works within society
Keeps non-believers out	Open to general community
Limits development of individual	Interested in promoting potential
Exploits and manipulates its members with mind control techniques	While there are guidelines members are not systematically controlled
Commitment is encouraged during recruitment process	Thought before commitment is encouraged as part of conversion process
Criticism is met with threats of legal action	People are free to speak out against the tenets of a religion
Leader and follower consider leader to be above reproach	Clergy are expected to be responsible for their words and actions
Questioning the leader, or basic tenets, is not allowed	Critical thinking is allowed and sometimes even encouraged

Click to expand...

This is pretty much how I define cults.
The useful way to distinguish cults from non-cult is to look at their methods. Some religions may have mildly cult-like tendencies, but that doesn't mean I would call them cults. One point I'd like to make is that by this definition there can be cults that aren't religions.

Blackdog said:

Well according to the dictionary anything at all that someone likes or is devoited to is a cult...

1: formal religious veneration : worship

2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>

5: a. great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b. the object of such devotion
c. a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion - Cult - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So anything people are devoted to is a cult. I am good with that.

Click to expand...

thats reality, some people accept it some dont because they are too sensitive for REAL ACTUAL meanings of words. :shrug:

Objective-J said:

thats reality, some people accept it some dont because they are too sensitive for REAL ACTUAL meanings of words. :shrug:

Click to expand...

Do you agree that the way most people use the word is not consistent with the dictionary definition?

theplaydrive said:

Do you agree that the way most people use the word is not consistent with the dictionary definition?

Click to expand...

No because I do not know how most people use it do you?. Ive never seen any evidence to suggest that MOST people use it WRONG.

I know SOME people use it as a negative and those some people get the most attention because they use it as a negative which typically happens when people do something wrong over something right :shrug:

I know what you are getting and its not that I even disagree but 75% of the people can call the color blue purple but the fact remains its still blue.
Slang and negatives are used all the time but since it was a very direct question without any extra premise I can only answer accurately.

"Are all religions cults?"

the only correct answer is yes

Objective-J said:

No because I do not know how most people use it do you?. Ive never seen any evidence to suggest that MOST people use it WRONG.

Click to expand...

I definitely see evidence that most people use it to mean something other than dictionary definition. All you have to do is look at the times in society when "cult" is invoked. It's invoked when people are referring to religious groups that seem crazy in some way. People don't use cult to refer to Lutherans or Catholics, they use it to refer to the Manson Family

You can even go to the Wikipedia page and the first line describes the popular use of the word. Cult - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just think back to conversations you've had with people about cults, about the religions society/media has associated with cults. I doubt you could honestly say that most people consider mainstream religions as cults. Cult is not used according to it's dictionary definition anymore and I won't be surprised if the dictionary definition changes soon.

I know SOME people use it as a negative and those some people get the most attention because they use it as a negative which typically happens when people do something wrong over something right :shrug:

I know what you are getting and its not that I even disagree but 75% of the people can call the color blue purple but the fact remains its still blue.
Slang and negatives are used all the time but since it was a very direct question without any extra premise I can only answer accurately.

"Are all religions cults?"

the only correct answer is yes

Click to expand...

It's really not some people. It's most people. Every time a bizarre religion does something, the media is sure to call it cult, but that term is rarely, if ever, used to describe mainstream religions. When you have conversations with people about cults, the image they have in their head is usually vastly different. This why there are now sites dedicated to getting people out of cults and why psychologists make their own suggestions for getting out of cults - none of these cults are mainstream religions they're are talking about.

My point is that the reason religious people don't want religion to be called a cult is because the societal definition of the word is different from the dictionary definition. It's not necessarily because they are "sensitive". It's because the word doesn't mean to people what it means to the dictionary.

theplaydrive said:

I definitely see evidence that most people use it to mean something other than dictionary definition. All you have to do is look at the times in society when "cult" is invoked. It's invoked when people are referring to religious groups that seem crazy in some way. People don't use cult to refer to Lutherans or Catholics, they use it to refer to the Manson Family



You can even go to the Wikipedia page and the first line describes the popular use of the word. Cult - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just think back to conversations you've had with people about cults, about the religions society/media has associated with cults. I doubt you could honestly say that most people consider mainstream religions as cults. Cult is not used according to it's dictionary definition anymore and I won't be surprised if the dictionary definition changes soon.

Click to expand...

uhm id like to see your evidence thats different from what I said, that the NEGATIVE gets the most attention
2 I just called them cults along with others in this thread
3 no matter how they use it, the facts dont change :shrug:
4 wikipedia doesnt intrest me at all for the definition of words lol
5 IF it changes then calling all religions will be inaccurate but currently calling them cults is still accurate.

I find it odd that the facts seem to bother you or am i guessing wrong? please correct me if i guessed wrong.

theplaydrive said:

It's really not some people. It's most people. Every time a bizarre religion does something, the media is sure to call it cult, but that term is rarely, if ever, used to describe mainstream religions. When you have conversations with people about cults, the image they have in their head is usually vastly different. This why there are now sites dedicated to getting people out of cults and why psychologists make their own suggestions for getting out of cults - none of these cults are mainstream religions they're are talking about.

My point is that the reason religious people don't want religion to be called a cult is because the societal definition of the word is different from the dictionary definition. It's not necessarily because they are "sensitive". It's because the word doesn't mean to people what it means to the dictionary.

Click to expand...

Well IMO they are sensitive and overreacting because i have no problem with people properly using words LOL
People can call my religion or anything im affiliated with a cult and it wont bother me nor would I try to WRONGLY correct them because id look like an idiot arguing against facts. Sorry just the way it is.

I find the term "cult" abbrasive. When I think of a cult, I think of a small organization that operates on manipulation and coercion, sometimes in a forceful manner.

I think some churches and temples have cult-like behavior, but religion in of itself has the power to be sane or insane. It depends on the user. There are a lot of balanced religious people out there whose philosophy I can work with, and I've had a real connection with some of those people. Others... are just obviously brainwashed.

Cults also exist outside of religion, when someone has a specific philosophy or ideology that hooks a bunch of people in. Usually the weak minded.

I do think that many aspects of religion are outdated though, and they are old world. A lot of those teachings need to be released and people need to stop excusing their ignorant, brainless behavior by citing scripture. You always have free will and always have a choice. Doing the wrong thing and blaming it on something else is not taking responsibility.

When I think of notable cults of our past, with examples of mass suicide by the drinking of poisoned koolaid or the mere existence of the moonies, I can't say that Christianity/broad religions are a cult. People go to those churches of their own volition, and of their own free will decide to leave them.

Some cults may use religion, but broad religions are not cults.

Objective-J said:

uhm id like to see your evidence thats different from what I said, that the NEGATIVE gets the most attention
2 I just called them cults along with others in this thread
3 no matter how they use it, the facts dont change :shrug:
4 wikipedia doesnt intrest me at all for the definition of words lol
5 IF it changes then calling all religions will be inaccurate but currently calling them cults is still accurate.

I find it odd that the facts seem to bother you or am i guessing wrong? please correct me if i guessed wrong.

Well IMO they are sensitive and overreacting because i have no problem with people properly using words LOL
People can call my religion or anything im affiliated with a cult and it wont bother me nor would I try to WRONGLY correct them because id look like an idiot arguing against facts. Sorry just the way it is.

Click to expand...

I'll simplify this. There are several definitions of "cult". Here they are:

1. formal religious veneration

2. a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

3. a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

Click to expand...

You're using the first and second definitions. However, most people use the third definition when referring to cults which is why most people don't consider Catholicism a cult, but they do consider the Branch Davidians a cult. For this reason, it is inaccurate to reduce the aversion of the religious to use "cult" as mere "sensitivity". On the contrary, it is their familiarity with society's use of "cult" (the third definition) that inspires them to object to people's use of the term. While their religions are "systems of religious beliefs", they may not be "regarded as unorthodox or spurious" which is what most people mean when they say the word.

I should also correct the part of my post where I said that "I won't be surprised if the dictionary definition changes soon" because the dictionary has already changed as evidenced by the fact that dictionaries including the OED and MW use the definition I'm referring to. There's also this dictionary which lists the most popular definition first in their list.

Also, I find it funny that you laughed about my link to Wikipedia when the definition I pointed you to on the page was from the Oxford English Dictionary. That's a pretty good source for definitions, no?

theplaydrive said:

I'll simplify this. There are several definitions of "cult". Here they are:


You're using the first and second definitions. However, most people use the third definition when referring to cults which is why most people don't consider Catholicism a cult, but they do consider the Branch Davidians a cult. For this reason, it is inaccurate to reduce the aversion of the religious to use "cult" as mere "sensitivity". On the contrary, it is their familiarity with society's use of "cult" (the third definition) that inspires them to object to people's use of the term. While their religions are "systems of religious beliefs", they may not be "regarded as unorthodox or spurious" which is what most people mean when they say the word.

I should also correct the part of my post where I said that "I won't be surprised if the dictionary definition changes soon" because the dictionary has already changed as evidenced by the fact that dictionaries including the OED and MW use the definition I'm referring to. There's also this dictionary which lists the most popular definition first in their list.

Also, I find it funny that you laughed about my link to Wikipedia when the definition I pointed you to on the page was from the Oxford English Dictionary. That's a pretty good source for definitions, no?

Click to expand...

Like I said I understand your points but the fact remains all religions are cults :shrug: theres nothing to debate about, facts are facts.

Objective-J said:

Like I said I understand your points but the fact remains all religions are cults :shrug: theres nothing to debate about, facts are facts.

Click to expand...

I was never debating that point. Are you just going to ignore that and keeping it over and over again?

theplaydrive said:

I was never debating that point. Are you just going to ignore that and keeping it over and over again?

Click to expand...

nothing to go over, like YOU said my statment is true and a fact, you seem to keep trying to add to it or to make it less true and its not. WHat else would you like me to say LMAO

I told you posts ago, I see your point and I may even agree with it but the fact remains all religions are cults but yet you keep replying and telling me more. You either have already ignored me or are trying to get me to debate some subjective topic that im unaware of and have no interest in debating. Im sorry am I doing something wrong? lol what would you like me to do besides acknowledge your points, say some are valid, i agree with some and note they have no impact to my factual statement??? Where would you like to go from here? LOL

Objective-J said:

nothing to go over, like YOU said my statment is true and a fact, you seem to keep trying to add to it or to make it less true and its not. WHat else would you like me to say LMAO

I told you posts ago, I see your point and I may even agree with it but the fact remains all religions are cults but yet you keep replying and telling me more. You either have already ignored me or are trying to get me to debate some subjective topic that im unaware of and have no interest in debating. Im sorry am I doing something wrong? lol what would you like me to do besides acknowledge your points, say some are valid, i agree with some and note they have no impact to my factual statement??? Where would you like to go from here? LOL

Click to expand...

I don't really want anything with you. It's strange to me to make an argument and then have someone repeat a point that I wasn't contesting in response to it. Whatever.

theplaydrive said:

I don't really want anything with you. It's strange to me to make an argument and then have someone repeat a point that I wasn't contesting in response to it. Whatever.

Click to expand...

I agree it does seem strange if you were contesting it or trying to make it less valid why quote it and try to distract from it? seems the issue is clearly on your end :shrug:

Objective-J said:

I agree it does seem strange if you were contesting it or trying to make it less valid why quote it and try to distract from it? seems the issue is clearly on your end :shrug:

Click to expand...

I don't even understand this comment. I never distracted from anything. I read your post, pulled out one point from and explained why I thought it was wrong. Like I said, whatever. It's really not even a big deal.

theplaydrive said:

I don't even understand this comment. I never distracted from anything. I read your post, pulled out one point from and explained why I thought it was wrong. Like I said, whatever. It's really not even a big deal.

Click to expand...

I agree its not a big deal but you just answered your own questions that you thought were wierd LMAO

YOU explained why you thought it was wrong, and it is simply not, so I explained why it in fact is not wrong and that seemed to confuse you :shrug:

I dont know what to tell you, you have valid points, some which I agree with but they dont impact the fact that all religions are cults.

Objective-J said:

I agree its not a big deal but you just answered your own questions that you thought were wierd LMAO

YOU explained why you thought it was wrong, and it is simply not, so I explained why it in fact is not wrong and that seemed to confuse you :shrug:

I dont know what to tell you, you have valid points, some which I agree with but they dont impact the fact that all religions are cults.

Click to expand...

You're misunderstanding my posts which may be my own fault, but clarification is probably not going to go anywhere.

theplaydrive said:

You're misunderstanding my posts which may be my own fault, but clarification is probably not going to go anywhere.

Click to expand...

Thats VERY possible but im GUESSING (and I could easily be wrong) that I understand your posts fine, they just dont have the impact on me that you want them too.

I mean no matter the meaning of your posts the fact remains that all religions are cults.

the only thing really debatable is that in my OPINION I think the people that are offended by the calling of their religion a cult are over sensitive or overreacting because it is factual to call it a cult.

Now we can debate that but I already admit its just my opinion, people getting upset over facts seems like overreacting or they are too sensitive to me. If you dont think so thats fine by me.