Are all religions cults?

Kandahar said:

OK, allow me to revise my previous definition:
A cult = any religion that isn't respected by the person making the statement, and has significantly fewer adherents than the person's own religion.

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That sounds closer to the idea I have in my mind because number certainly has something to do with it, but I think it's about more than numbers. It also has to do with the way the adherents to said religion behave, particularly in relation to those outside of the religion.

Wake said:

Cults aren't always religious. Didn't you hear? How do you think Obama was elected?

"BARACK - HUSSEIN - OBAMA, MM - MM - MM"

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The question was "are all religions cults?" Not "are all cults religious?" Reading comprehension is a great thing, Wake. But don't let it get in the way if your bashing Obama.

theplaydrive said:

That sounds closer to the idea I have in my mind because number certainly has something to do with it, but I think it's about more than numbers. It also has to do with the way the adherents to said religion behave, particularly in relation to those outside of the religion.

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If that's the case I'm not quite sure why so many evangelical churches peg Mormonism as a cult. Most Mormons are good family people who have nothing against outsiders, and to the extent they proselytize I've found them to generally be much less obnoxious about it than some of the evangelical churches themselves are.

StillBallin75 said:

The question was "are all religions cults?" Not "are all cults religious?" Reading comprehension is a great thing, Wake. But don't let it get in the way if your bashing Obama.

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Oh, I'm aware of the OP. I take offense to it, too, because "cult" is a negative connotation. Therefore, before people slur the religious in such a passive-agressive style, they should understand that they just might be hypocrites.

Kandahar said:

If that's the case I'm not quite sure why so many evangelical churches peg Mormonism as a cult. Most Mormons are good family people who have nothing against outsiders, and to the extent they proselytize I've found them to generally be much less obnoxious about it than some of the evangelical churches themselves are.

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I think that has to do with ignorance. In the past, Mormonism wasn't as friendly to outsiders and I think people still have that stereotype in their mind. When the image you have in your mind of a religion is a group of people who live in a state of their own, practice polygamy and hate black people, then that goes with the whole "it's also about how the religion relates to outsiders" aspect of my argument even if that image is now completely inaccurate.

theplaydrive said:

That sounds closer to the idea I have in my mind because number certainly has something to do with it, but I think it's about more than numbers. It also has to do with the way the adherents to said religion behave, particularly in relation to those outside of the religion.

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but why do you think that? by definition neither are a factor ( numbers/behavior)

just honestly curious because I CLEARLY acknowledge that people have different opinions on what a cult is, usually cult is used as a negative but like I said before those people are simply using the word wrong.

Objective-J said:

but why do you think that? by definition neither are a factor ( numbers/behavior)

just honestly curious because I CLEARLY acknowledge that people have different opinions on what a cult is, usually cult is used as a negative but like I said before those people are simply using the word wrong.

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Well, I'm only explaining how I use the word and how I think most people use the word and I admit most people's use of the word, including mine, doesn't strictly follow the dictionary definition.

People usually label something a cult when its members require an unusual amount of physical or mental/emotional isolation from those outside of the religion in addition to an abnormally strict set of behaviors. Think of the religions people tend to consider cults: Scientology, Mormonism (at least certain sects), Jehovah's witnesses, Opus Dei within the Catholic Church, Branch Davidians and so on. Their members either currently have or have a history of requiring an abnormal amount of isolation from/hostility towards outsiders and abnormally strict rules for one's behavior.

They essentially do what all religions do, but they just intensify it to the point where most people feel uncomfortable and a bit frightened if not threatened.

And also size often has something to do with it probably because the larger a religion is, the more familiar it seems and the more the comfortable people are with it.

theplaydrive said:

Well, I'm only explaining how I use the word and how I think most people use the word and I admit most people's use of the word, including mine, doesn't strictly follow the dictionary definition.

People usually label something a cult when its members require an unusual amount of physical or mental/emotional isolation from those outside of the religion in addition to an abnormally strict set of behaviors. Think of the religions people tend to consider cults: Scientology, Mormonism (at least certain sects), Jehovah's witnesses, Opus Dei within the Catholic Church, Branch Davidians and so on. Their members either currently have or have a history of requiring an abnormal amount of isolation from/hostility towards outsiders and abnormally strict rules for one's behavior.

They essentially do what all religions do, but they just intensify it to the point where most people feel uncomfortable and a bit frightened if not threatened.

And also size often has something to do with it probably because the larger a religion is, the more familiar it seems and the more the comfortable people are with it.

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I pretty much agree I was just curious as to your opinion and usage of the word. I think lots of people use words wrong and the problem with that is that people tend to ignore the real meaning. Im not accusing you of this im just speaking in general.

Im laughing at the people here that are offended that their religion might be referred to as a cult. The fact is, it IS a cult. Now if the person is TRYING to be NEGATIVE or INSULTING by using that word by all means be offended. If they are not you just look foolish denying the fact that your religion is a cult.

Wake said:

Oh, I'm aware of the OP. I take offense to it, too, because "cult" is a negative connotation. Therefore, before people slur the religious in such a passive-agressive style, they should understand that they just might be hypocrites.

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Only if you hold to that negative connotation that is put on "cult".

Many people say that just about anything has a "cult" following, including Twilight, Harry Potter, Star Trek, Star Wars, many '80s cartoons, Justin Bieber, or just about any other entertainment entity out there.

Heck, I could probably say that I was a part of several "cults" right now just from how much I obsess about certain entertain avenues of mine.

Okay, to answer the question at least somewhat thoughtfully, I've found the main differences from an cult recovery website, CultClinic.org

(Cults on the left, religions on the right, fyi)

RadicalModerate said:

Okay, to answer the question at least somewhat thoughtfully, I've found the main differences from an cult recovery website, CultClinic.org

(Cults on the left, religions on the right, fyi)

Deceit in recruitment	Information offered up front
Totalitarian	Allows freedom of thought and members have a say
Destroys that family unit	Promotes the family unit
Isolates its members	Works within society
Keeps non-believers out	Open to general community
Limits development of individual	Interested in promoting potential
Exploits and manipulates its members with mind control techniques	While there are guidelines members are not systematically controlled
Commitment is encouraged during recruitment process	Thought before commitment is encouraged as part of conversion process
Criticism is met with threats of legal action	People are free to speak out against the tenets of a religion
Leader and follower consider leader to be above reproach	Clergy are expected to be responsible for their words and actions
Questioning the leader, or basic tenets, is not allowed	Critical thinking is allowed and sometimes even encouraged

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Exactly what I was going to say.

By the modern definition of "cult", no not all religions are cults. Most are not.

Goshin said:

Exactly what I was going to say.

By the modern definition of "cult", no not all religions are cults. Most are not.

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Deceit in recruitment / Information offered up front

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Subjective judgment. If an evangelical Christian tells me that I'll be a happier and better person if I convert, is it fair to say that he deceived me if those things don't happen?

Totalitarian / Allows freedom of thought and members have a say

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Catholic Church.

Destroys that family unit / Promotes the family unit

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Conservative evangelical churches that promote abstinence-only sex education, shotgun weddings at age 18, intolerance for gays, and other ideas that destroy the family unit.

Isolates its members / Works within society

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This is just another way of saying that a religion has more adherents than a cult. It's easy to work within society when you (or people with not-too-distant beliefs) ARE the society.

Keeps non-believers out / Open to general community

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Very few people are allowed to convert to Judaism; you're born into it. Holy sites of Islam are off limits to nonbelievers.

Limits development of individual / Interested in promoting potential

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This depends entirely on what kind of "potential" you're trying to "develop." I can think of several entities widely considered cults that would very much want you to develop your potential in certain areas...and several entities widely considered religions that would not.

Exploits and manipulates its members with mind control techniques / While there are guidelines members are not systematically controlled

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Another subjective value judgment. EVERY hierarchical religion (and some that aren't) engage in mind control. People just apply that term to religions they dislike.

Commitment is encouraged during recruitment process / Thought before commitment is encouraged as part of conversion process

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So if religions encourage thought before commitment, is it just a coincidence that most people are the same religion that they were raised?

Criticism is met with threats of legal action / People are free to speak out against the tenets of a religion

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As far as I can figure, this critique applies to two and only two "cults": Scientology and the Westboro Baptist Church. It's not exactly a hard-and-fast rule, as there are plenty of entities commonly considered cults that don't engage in this. And religions are hardly above doing it.

Leader and follower consider leader to be above reproach / Clergy are expected to be responsible for their words and actions

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Papal infallibility.

Questioning the leader, or basic tenets, is not allowed / Critical thinking is allowed and sometimes even encouraged

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Conservative evangelical Christianity. Roman Catholicism.

Kandahar said:

Subjective judgment. If an evangelical Christian tells me that I'll be a happier and better person if I convert...blah, blah, blah.

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Try looking at it from the point of view of the cult member, not the church member. Then you'll begin to see the differences.

Dion said:

Are all religions cults?

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I voted 'yes', but then I considered Buddhism, and I should have voted 'no'.

jimbo said:

Depends on your definition of cult, and religion. There are some that would define a religious cult as any religion other than their own.

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All definitions come from the dictionary.

Cult - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1: formal religious veneration : worship

2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>

5a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad

• b: the object of such devotion
• c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

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RadicalModerate said:

Try looking at it from the point of view of the cult member, not the church member.

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Since those are the very terms we are trying to DEFINE and distinguish from one another, that doesn't work for this exercise.

Then you'll begin to see the differences.

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But that's the whole point. That's incredibly laden with subjective value judgments. Why is it "deceit" if, say, a scientologist tells me I'll be a better, happier person if I convert...but if a Christian does the same thing he's just trying to be helpful? :roll:

LuckyDan said:

I can only speak of Christian cults, and those are defined as any group that claims to follow Christ, but who follow another person whom they exalt as Christ's equal, and who follow a book to which they give equal importance as the bible, or a heavily edited bible. Or so I was taught at a Christian University by a man who studied cults extensively.

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A lot of christians can quote Paul a lot more than they can quote Jesus....

LuckyDan said:

Choosing books is not editing them. And the KJV says nothing like, "And LuckyDan stood beside the Lord. And the Lord Said unto LuckyDan 'Thou art too cool for school. Ye shall be my bro henceforth.'"

You get the idea. That's heavily edited

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Choosing which books go into the bible IS editing, in advance. Other editing happened later...

RadicalModerate said:

Okay, to answer the question at least somewhat thoughtfully, I've found the main differences from an cult recovery website, CultClinic.org

(Cults on the left, religions on the right, fyi)

Deceit in recruitment	Information offered up front
Totalitarian	Allows freedom of thought and members have a say
Destroys that family unit	Promotes the family unit
Isolates its members	Works within society
Keeps non-believers out	Open to general community
Limits development of individual	Interested in promoting potential
Exploits and manipulates its members with mind control techniques	While there are guidelines members are not systematically controlled
Commitment is encouraged during recruitment process	Thought before commitment is encouraged as part of conversion process
Criticism is met with threats of legal action	People are free to speak out against the tenets of a religion
Leader and follower consider leader to be above reproach	Clergy are expected to be responsible for their words and actions
Questioning the leader, or basic tenets, is not allowed	Critical thinking is allowed and sometimes even encouraged

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I like this. What happens when a cult/religion straddles both sides? To me, Mormonism does in some areas.

IMO, all religions start as cults, as they mature they become mainstream, once they are fully mature, they become Mutual Admiration Societies....

Goshin said:

Exactly what I was going to say.

By the modern definition of "cult", no not all religions are cults. Most are not.

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the problem with saying that is that modern definition has no definition at all, its subjective.

What is the "modern" definition and who gets to decide????

the only way to be accurate is to use the REAL meaning of the word cult and all religions are cults.

While i do agree people have their own opinion on what a cult is but thats just it, its just opinion and a wrong one.

Jerry said:

All definitions come from the dictionary.

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exactly and thats why all religions are cults

Each religion matches at least one definition of 'occult', so I have to agree; 'occult' can apply to any and every religion.

Jerry said:

All definitions come from the dictionary.

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I would suggest that is the other way around. Words change meaning over time, and dictionaries reflect those changes with constant revising of their contents.

jimbo said:

I would suggest that is the other way around. Words change meaning over time, and dictionaries reflect those changes with constant revising of their contents.

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Yeah I tried passing that line in an English class also. Didn't work.