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The Irrationality of Vigilant Wisdom?

Is it irrational/bigoted to have a slight wariness of Muslims?

  • Total voters
    16
Wake said:
You consistently twist people's words. As such it's not worth refuting your claims.
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you didn't suggest that suspision of all Muslims is justified due to 9-11?

you didn't suggest that a little prejudice against all Muslims is justified by the many Muslim terrorist attacks around the world?

sure you did.
 
Wake said:
They have no comprehension of the pain inflicted during such events. Whenever a person of such liberal ideology tries to use the PC-BS to smear me, I feel like back-handing them (not physically) in regards to discussion. I am tired of being told how to think. Tired of being told not to be wise and remember. Tired of being told to forget the past only to relive it over and over and over again.
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Statistically speaking, if you live in America, the person who may kill you or your family is a thousand times more likely to be Christian than Muslim. In fact if you want to talk numbers, then you should be infinitely more afraid of tobacco product manufacturers than of Muslims.

Is it irrational? Yes. It isn't representative of reality.
 
CriticalThought said:
Statistically speaking, if you live in America, the person who may kill you or your family is a thousand times more likely to be Christian than Muslim. In fact if you want to talk numbers, then you should be infinitely more afraid of tobacco product manufacturers than of Muslims.
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The point isn't primarily Muslims. It's about having %100 trust in huge groups of people.

I don't trust all Christians. Likewise, I don't trust all Muslims. Same with political groups.

But apparently if you don't have absolute trust in these groups you are irrational.
 
Wake said:
My question is pretty simple and straight-forward. We ALL know there have been many terrorist attacks on American soil. Is it irrational/weak-minded/stupid to not even have a slight fear/vigilance about Muslims in America[B}? I am NOT talking about signs/propaganda/that sort of stuff. Merely, an internal awareness that "hey, radical Muslims have been killing people and there's a lot of Muslims who haven't harmed/killed people who sympathize with them." As a kid, I learned that being bit by a cat made one a bit wary, internally of cats. Don't even try to say I'm comparing Muslims to cats because I'll call you out on that BS. It is human behavior to have an internal wariness/vigilance after being attacked/hurt from certain, past things. Some blacks distrust white people today because of slavery and other atrocities in the past....
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Wake said:
The point isn't primarily Muslims...
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..and yet, MUSLIMS are the core & primary target of your OP.
 
Thunder said:
actually, I quoted your OP.
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My question is pretty simple and straight-forward. We ALL know there have been many terrorist attacks on American soil. Is it irrational/weak-minded/stupid to not even have a slight fear/vigilance about Muslims in America? I am NOT talking about signs/propaganda/that sort of stuff. Merely, an internal awareness that "hey, radical Muslims have been killing people and there's a lot of Muslims who haven't harmed/killed people who sympathize with them." As a kid, I learned that being bit by a cat made one a bit wary, internally of cats. Don't even try to say I'm comparing Muslims to cats because I'll call you out on that BS. It is human behavior to have an internal wariness/vigilance after being attacked/hurt from certain, past things. Some blacks distrust white people today because of slavery and other atrocities in the past. Some people have a wariness of Christians because some atrocities/killings have happened under Christianity. The same goes for communists/socialists/capitalists. Are people wrong to be even a bit wary internally about certain people who have in their group other people who have committed murders?

Take the Juan Williams example. He was fired because he simply said he felt wary being on a plane with a Muslim in garb. You could say he was an idiot, or you may be an idiot for forgetting that at least four planes went down by Muslim extremists. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying all Muslims are bad and I'm not saying people should put up signs and propaganda showing their intense fear. All I'm saying is that it is human nature to distrust a subset of people who has another group within the same set who has caused much evil---radical Muslims.

There are some liberals in this world who would say, right after 9/11, that you must forget and better not be afraid or wary. They have no comprehension of the pain inflicted during such events. Whenever a person of such liberal ideology tries to use the PC-BS to smear me, I feel like back-handing them (not physically) in regards to discussion. I am tired of being told how to think. Tired of being told not to be wise and remember. Tired of being told to forget the past only to relive it over and over and over again.
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You did not even consider the main point. Muslims were being used as an example, so you need to back off.

Then, later on in this thread, I elaborated on the main point.

Now, I suggest you stop trying to deliberately twist my words.
 
Wake said:
The point isn't primarily Muslims. It's about having %100 trust in huge groups of people.

I don't trust all Christians. Likewise, I don't trust all Muslims. Same with political groups.

But apparently if you don't have absolute trust in these groups you are irrational.
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It would be irrational to have 100% trust in any group. I don't know of anyone who has made that argument.

Could you provide an example of someone saying you should have a 100% trust in any group of people? I think you are taking the criticism that some people have for those who have a skewed mistrust of Muslims and you are exaggerating it into a strawman that those people are arguing that people have to have a 100% trust of Muslims. Nobody is making that argument.
 
Wake said:
My question is pretty simple and straight-forward. We ALL know there have been many terrorist attacks on American soil. Is it irrational/weak-minded/stupid to not even have a slight fear/vigilance about Muslims in America?
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You should be wary of people who act suspicious. They come in all religions, races, nationalities and so on.
 
CriticalThought said:
...I think you are taking the criticism that some people have for those who have a skewed mistrust of Muslims and you are exaggerating it into a strawman that those people are arguing that people have to have a 100% trust of Muslims. Nobody is making that argument.
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I don't distrust anyone simply due to their religion.



Should ALL Muslims you meet on the street be given the full benefit of the doubt? yes, 100%.
 
CriticalThought said:
It would be irrational to have 100% trust in any group. I don't know of anyone who has made that argument.

Could you provide an example of someone saying you should have a 100% trust in any group of people? I think you are taking the criticism that some people have for those who have a skewed mistrust of Muslims and you are exaggerating it into a strawman that those people are arguing that people have to have a 100% trust of Muslims. Nobody is making that argument.
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Well, apparently, I've been told by at least 6 people among various forums that I'm irrational for not having complete trust, thus why I am a bit annoyed with this crap.

In this very thread I'm told I'm irrational for having even an indiscernable bit of non-trust of Muslims. Either you have complete trust, or you're deemd irrational for having even .000000000001% mistrust.
 
theplaydrive said:
You should be wary of people who act suspicious. They come in all religions, races, nationalities and so on.
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Exactly. I have very slight mistrust of all groups. However, that makes me irrational. "/
 
Wake said:
Exactly. I have very slight mistrust of all groups. However, that makes me irrational. "/
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No, I'm saying you distrust individuals who act suspicious. It doesn't make sense to me to distrust groups unless those groups are gangs and terrorist organizations.
 
To be fair, I can't really criticize you for distrusting Muslims, because I definitely distrust all Scientologists.
 
Thunder said:
I don't distrust anyone simply due to their religion.
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Well then we are different. I mistrust everyone because of their religion or lack of religion. Everyone has a worldview and that is going to lead them to behave in a certain way in which I may not agree, particularly if it affects me.

Should ALL Muslims you meet on the street be given the full benefit of the doubt? yes, 100%.
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If you are realistic, you don't believe anything good or bad about an individual until you know them. The idiom "benefit of the doubt" generally means you believe someone's intentions are good rather than bad. I don't believe in giving anyone the "benefit of the doubt" or being "wary" of someone just because of their religious beliefs.
 
Wake said:
Well, apparently, I've been told by at least 6 people among various forums that I'm irrational for not having complete trust, thus why I am a bit annoyed with this crap....
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its a simple fact that if you feel a bit of fear & suspision whenever you come across a Muslim, or a Jew, or a black person...then you are reacting to irrational & paranoid beliefs about individuals that deserve the benefit of the doubt.

we all have fears & prejudices. the issue is how you ACT on them and how you TREAT people.

I would be very...very offended if someone was suspicious of me simply due to the crimes of Bernie Madoff, and I would call them an anti-Semitic bigot.
 
I simply won't give 100% trust in groups of people. Same with government. If it makes me a bigot for mistrusting Muslims a bit, just as I mistrust any group from religion to politics, then I don't care because they're delusional.

:coffeepap
 
Wake said:
Well, apparently, I've been told by at least 6 people among various forums that I'm irrational for not having complete trust, thus why I am a bit annoyed with this crap.

In this very thread I'm told I'm irrational for having even an indiscernable bit of non-trust of Muslims. Either you have complete trust, or you're deemd irrational for having even .000000000001% mistrust.
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Anyone who would make that argument is irrational.

However, I suspect your wariness of Muslims far outweighs your wariness of Christians and members of other groups who are actually far more of a threat to you and your family, and it is that skewed mistrust that people are picking up on.
 
Thunder said:
its a simple fact that if you feel a bit of fear & suspision whenever you come across a Muslim, or a Jew, or a black person...then you are reacting to irrational & paranoid beliefs about individuals that deserve the benefit of the doubt.

we all have fears & prejudices. the issue is how you ACT on them and how you TREAT people.

I would be very...very offended if someone was suspicious of me simply due to the crimes of Bernie Madoff, and I would call them an anti-Semitic bigot.
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Of course you would. You're you.

Do you trust all:

~ Hillbillies?
~ Rightwingers?
~ Gun rights activists?
~ Anti-abortionists?
~ Tea Partiers?
~ The Religious Right?
~ Christians?
 
Wake said:
I simply won't give 100% trust in groups of people. Same with government. If it makes me a bigot for mistrusting Muslims a bit, just as I mistrust any group from religion to politics, then I don't care because they're delusional....
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you are saying that someone is delusional for criticising you for having a prejudiced distrust for Muslims?

how are they delusional?
 
Wake said:
Well, apparently, I've been told by at least 6 people among various forums that I'm irrational for not having complete trust, thus why I am a bit annoyed with this crap.

In this very thread I'm told I'm irrational for having even an indiscernable bit of non-trust of Muslims. Either you have complete trust, or you're deemd irrational for having even .000000000001% mistrust.
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First of all, no one cares what you've seen, heard, written or done on facebook, myspace, twitter, other forums and the ****ing moon, what matters is what you say here.

Second. This is why people get frustrated with you, you are utterly incapable of grasping even the most basic of ideas and rebuttals against your very weak arguments, and when you get skewered you often times turn it into an immediate "I'm a victim" situation and that means you lost the game.

Thirdly mistrust is mistrust. I mistrust almost everyone to a certain extent... but why? Because they're human beings and human beings often have an agenda and a self interest that is not the same as mine and if they can screw me for an extra dollar or to get ahead, they just might if I give them that chance.

And it's a free country, if you wanna dislike muslims, be my guest, and if I wanna diss you for disliking muslims because you think they're inherently terrorist sympathisers then that's my right too.

My point has and will always be the same on this subject of the irrational fear of muslims.

There's a fine line between Prejudice, discrimination and finally persecution. And those lines are not as far apart as you might think. We need to be more careful of what we say and the actions we take against our fellow man no matter what religion they may be, for in the end, if we build a culture of fear against a certain people in our country that ought to be free citizens, the guilty ones won't be us, it'll be our children or our grandchildren.
 
Thunder said:
you are saying that someone is delusional for criticising you for having a prejudiced distrust for Muslims?

how are they delusional?
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See? You keep twisting my words. Why?

I said I think it is delusional to have to have complete---%100---trust in a whole group of people.
 
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